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Thanks! I love Rick's videos. They have really helped me understand theory a little better over the last year or two.
 

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I’ll post my paint drying videos later for you.
Picking a solo apart as laboriously as that bores me to tears.
 

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I think it's a really interesting analysis. It shows that the improvisor need not necessarily follow the lead sheet precisely as far as chord symbols go -- for instance Eb to Eb- rather than C- to F7, thinking relative minors and all -- and implies flexibility required to go with what the rhythm section plays, and vice versa. Improvising is 'thinking on your feet'. This illustrates what Bird *may* have been thinking, it's good.
 

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I think it's a really interesting analysis. It shows that the improvisor need not necessarily follow the lead sheet precisely as far as chord symbols go -- for instance Eb to Eb- rather than C- to F7, thinking relative minors and all -- and implies flexibility required to go with what the rhythm section plays, and vice versa. Improvising is 'thinking on your feet'. This illustrates what Bird *may* have been thinking, it's good.
......or he could of not been thinking that at all..........
 

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......or he could of not been thinking that at all..........
This is probably the right answer. To me, analyzing a solo is not about what the artist was thinking while playing the solo, but rather what he was thinking while practicing. Then I can practice the same stuff and hope to hear something of what I was practicing while taking a solo.
 

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It's anyone's guess what Bird was thinking. That's exactly why analysis has it's place,... to hopefully gain a little insight on the logic of his lines.
 

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It's anyone's guess what Bird was thinking. That's exactly why analysis has it's place,... to hopefully gain a little insight on the logic of his lines.
Or else gain an insight into the logic of the analyser. (analyst?)

In this video, several times, he assumes Bird is ignoring the IIm7 of a IIm7 V7 and thinking of that bar as a V7 all the way through.

I don't think he was necessarily thinking that purely because he played a Bb over an Fm7. He was very aware of theory and could very well be thinking of the Bb as a suspension. That is certainly the way he plays those IIm7 passages.

That descending bebop scale from the 4th of a minor 7 is now quite common and perfectly outlines a IIm7 chord suspension on beat 1 "resolving" to chord tone on beat 2.

PLUS:

When someone is learning harmony and chord changes, it can be somewhat confusing to imply to students they can "ignore" what may be important chords. In real life, sometimes we do because the harmony changes too quickly for us :) but I wouldn't give students that as an excuse.
 

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True. But I think it can also be eye opening to try just playing lines off the V on ii V chunks. Trying to change run every single chord can come out quite mechanical and I think to play around with some over-arching ideas can create some great results. It can free you up to experiment and be more creative I think.

At any rate, I can't imagine why anyone would put down some analysis. I think the more ways you can look at something the better.
 

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Parker himself has been quoted as saying, "You've got to learn your instrument. Then, you practice, practice, practice. And then, when you finally get up there on the bandstand, forget all that and just wail."

70 years later, we have learned thesis analyzing his wailing, which probably means he wailed OK! One of my very first purchases as a budding horn player was Thomas Owen's doctoral thesis analyzing Bird's solos, a real treasure that I've mined continually.
 

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True. But I think it can also be eye opening to try just playing lines off the V on ii V chunks. Trying to change run every single chord can come out quite mechanical and I think to play around with some over-arching ideas can create some great results. It can free you up to experiment and be more creative I think.
I absolutely agree, no argument there - I do it all the time.

At any rate, I can't imagine why anyone would put down some analysis. I think the more ways you can look at something the better.
I am not putting down analysis, if you read what I posted all I was doing was questioning the assertion that the analyst knew what Bird was thinking. How could he have known that Bird was ignoring the Fm7? It's absolutely fine to look at things in different ways as long as it is clear that is the way the analyst is thinking (or anybody might want to think) as opposed to stating for a fact what the artist was thinking.

Analysis is an amazing tool for anyone learning to improvise. We can (and should) speculate about what was in the mind of the artist - that's how we learn.
 

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If you really want to understand bebop Mr Beato is not going to help you. On the other hand Barry Harris will:

 

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It seems to me that Mr. Harris is talking about kind of the same thing, only he's talking pretty strictly about chord substitutions, or omissions -- like playing E-7b5 over the 1st 2 bars rather than feel obligated to play E-7b5 in the first bar and then A7b9 in the second bar, because he likes the way it leads to the C-7 in the 3rd bar -- harmonically. He then goes on to show a variety of other approaches, and some other folks in the room do, too. Likewise, I don't think that necessarily obligates the soloist to strictly follow what he substitutes, adds or omits -- similar to what the analysis of the Bird solo shows. But you certainly can.

Personally, and I play with rhythm guys who do this too -- every chorus might have at least one or two changes like that, just to mix things up. If I hear the pianist playing quartel sounds against all that, so will I. If he hears me do something wacky, he'll go along with that. Rhythmic give-and-take, call-and-response, it all plays into what makes Jazz spontaneous and exciting. The more different approaches and ideas there are, there better -- eh, usually! :)
 

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Bokagee, who is making the more complete and compelling case for what they’re talking about by real demonstration? I don’t think it’s a contest.
Harris talks about the concept of movements over chord progressions, in essence understanding keys and scales as they relate to chords.
 

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Sorry, I don't think it's a contest either, in a literal sense. It's all pretty much the same thing to me, somewhat different aspects -- and in the end, mostly about how the nuts and bolts translate into what our ears want to hear, and how what our ears want to hear translates into nuts and bolts. Audiences *might* have half a clue about stuff like that, but they're mostly just listening, kind of along for the ride -- not always true, but mostly. It's nuts and bolts to me because these kinds of harmonic and melodic ideas define the way one can think about what's going on while we're doing it, and preparing to do it, and identify how other people are doing it. The more the merrier I think, and in the end, in actual practice, it's all been ear training for us. We can hopefully play what we hear in our heads, and what we hear in our heads can hopefully not be that lick I've been playing since I was 25.
 
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