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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I bought a YAS-275 last year. All in all it is mostly ok. Not as good as my Yanagisawa. But at one third of the price....what the hell.

Anyway today I noticed that the BIS key was slow in recovery after being pressed.
I gave the spring a tweek but it is still slow. And now as I pay more attention to it, and think about it, the action is a little slow.

I was thinking about replacing all the springs with Blue Steel springs.

Good idea?? Waste of time?

I have read on other threads that one of the differences between the entry level Yamaha sax and the Pro sax is the springs.


Regards,
Craig
 

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You want make sure the keys are slow because if the springs first. Could be many other reasons. It is a lot of work to change all the springs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You want make sure the keys are slow because if the springs first. Could be many other reasons. It is a lot of work to change all the springs.
True Ken. Thank you.
I was thinking of pulling it down and cleaning / oiling the moving parts as well. For want of a better discription.

Thinking further if it is post alignment...I suppose I would take it back to where I bought it. It should be still under the 12 month warrenty.
 

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It would be a waste of time and money to change very good stainless steel springs for blue steel---especially on what is basically a student model sax. If the key is sluggish, remove the spring from its cradle and then see if the key closes by its own weight and moves freely. If it does not, loosen each pivot screw 1/4 turn and try again. Most of the time when a key is sluggish it is caused by friction and not a weak spring or lack of lubrication.

John
 

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I totally agree with John.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks guys, I made the change. The action still feels sluggish. I might have to remove and clean it.
 

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Im a little bit lost here, You ask in the first post at 10 am today re changing springs, 10.36 still talking about it, and then 4.30 this afternoon youve changed all the springs with correct sized replacement units, peened the ends and set them into the posts with the correct amount of tension, set them and test played without stripping down the sax, have I missed something here,

If this is true, come and see me, I have a full time job for you, or have I missed something
 

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I think he meant he only changed the Bb spring. Which is pretty strange, considering that removing the spring from its cradle and checking for friction takes a few seconds. CraigAB did you check that before changing the spring (or maybe I misunderstood and you didn't change the spring)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ahhh Sunday afternoons I tend to be a bit vague. It’s my veg-out day.
Sorry guys,
I just made the turn on the screw. But the action of the sax still feels sluggish.
I will probably clean all the rods on the sax.
I think I will order the springs from Ferrees and go from there. I have a bit of time on my hands lately, so I'll see if I can improve the action.
I must be spoilt from my Yanagisawa or this is just a bad one from the batch.

Sorry again guys for the confusion.
 

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It never ceases to amaze me when someone asks the advice of experienced repair techs, that advice is given, and they they go ahead and indicate they plan to do the opposite anyway. Replacing stainless springs with pointed blue steel is a complicated and challenging job even for an experienced tech, let alone a novice.

The diameter of each spring is determined by the hole drilled into the post. The stainless spring and the blue steel spring of exactly the same diameter are not going to have the same resistance. That means in some cases the blue steel spring that fits the post is going to be too heavy for that key's application.

In order to change out springs, one needs to know how to completely disassemble and reassemble the instrument, how to safely remove tight springs without bending posts, how to dovetail the ends of the springs, how to install the new springs with the right length, and how to properly curve each spring for the correct feel and tension.

What's more you can't just go to Ferrees or anywhere else and order a set of springs for a particular model of saxophone. You have to order a complete assortment of at least 350 springs in order to be sure to get all of the springs you need of a particular size. This is at least $70 with postage.

Even if one can successfully change the springs from Yamaha's very good stainless, to the questionable quality current blue steel springs available from Ferrees and other suppliers, the difference in the feel of the spring will be negligible. The removal of any friction in the keys, and the proper adjustment and curvature of the existing springs will contribute 99% of the feel of the saxophone. Putting in a different spring MAYBE will contribute the remaining 1%.

That said knock yourself out if you still insist on changing the springs. It will be a learning experience, and remember always have a back up tech to take it to when you screw it up. Just plan on paying more because you worked on it yourself first. :)
 

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It seems that the location or angles of the pivot points and the tension of the springs would have more to do with the action than what the springs are made of.
That being said, my horn with stainless springs feels a lot more "sluggish" than my Selmer with the "good" springs.
 

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Ahhh Sunday afternoons I tend to be a bit vague. It';s my veg-out day.
Sorry guys,
I just made the turn on the screw. But the action of the sax still feels sluggish.
I will probably clean all the rods on the sax.
I think I will order the springs from Ferrees and go from there. I have a bit of time on my hands lately, so I'll see if I can improve the action.
I must be spoilt from my Yanagisawa or this is just a bad one from the batch.

Sorry again guys for the confusion.
Yanagisawas are pretty great.... but.... and sorry if this is a little naive, you are sure you turned the screw a bit to unscrew it right? and didn't screw it even tighter. Also, if I remember that model has headless pivot screws. Did you try unscrewing the screws on both sides of the key? It's possible that only one of them pushes the key to the post, and if you only unscrewed one, it could be the other.
 

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And I just worked on a brand new, professional model Yamaha with extraordinarily stiff steel needle springs. I detensioned them but many of them still had a bad feel because they were too short for their diameter. This is your likely result if you change S/S to steel of the same diameter.

I agree totally with John, but he forgot to mention that you are likely to break a few of those rather brittle currently-available steel ones. That will be more fun and games, getting the stumps out of the posts.

If you want good spring design, get a Mark VI. I reckon Selmer had a good, effective mechanical design engineer then. A rare commodity!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Guys,

I would NEVER de-value your advice. Please remember that I have time to experiment, whereas you guys make a living from this business. So I would expect that experimentation costs you a lot more than a novice like me.
My everyday job at the moment is as boring as heck and allows me to do "foreign orders". I have access to a full machine shop etc.

Nothing would please me more than buying another Yanagisawa or a Mark VI. But I am enjoying the experimentation. Beside they are rather expensive to be experimenting on.

Claribass,
I loosened the rod right off then slowly tensioned it back to try and find the correct adjustment that I am looking for.

jbtsax,
I don't mean to frustrate or annoy you with my choices, but I am getting enjoyment from this type of work and learning heaps. You have a lot of experience that I do not have, so the way I learn is to experiment.
 

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I loosened the rod right off then slowly tensioned it back to try and find the correct adjustment that I am looking for.
On this model, is the Bb Bis key on the same rod screw of the rest of the top stack? Or on seperate posts using pivot screws (one on each side)? I thought the latter but I don't remember I see very few of this model, maybe it's the former.
 

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Nitai the 275 has the Bis between pivot screws, seperate from the top stack rods
 

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Hi all,

I am bit confused with this thread. So does it mean that
if your sax orginally has blue springs then replace it with blue springs
if it has Stainless Steel then replace it with stainless steel.

To make matters more confusing my sax has springs which looks like black color to me :(
 

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Yes, as a general rule, but the top quality alloy stainless steel springs from Kraus (very different form the "standard" stainless steel ones, and the crap ones, do have characteristics very similar to blued steel springs, and are therefore pretty well interchangable IMO.

To make matters more confusing my sax has springs which look like black color to me
Modern "blued steel" springs have seemingly rather scruffy heat treatment that leaves them rather brittle. This heat treatment tends to leave them black or dark grey rather than the traditional blue that is characteristic of clock springs, and representing the ideal tempering of the steel for our purpose.

On some (usually cheap and inferior) saxes the body is black lacquered after the springs are installed, so the springs are black lacquered.
 

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The colour of the springs is only an indicator of the oxide thickness on the surface of the steel.
This is more indicative of the time the metal stayed at the tempering temperature.

Craig, before you order the springs, remove both screws, and see if the rod is still stuck.
perhaps one post has had a bit of a bump.
in that case, no spring change can possibly help (unless you say, double the strength of it...)
 
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