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Since I've never seen a Brilhart mouthpiece (vintage or otherwise) what is the chamber/baffle design of the Ebolin and Tonalin for alto? I like the vintage jazz sound of the players I've heard using them but there is no way I could afford to purchase one of these vintage pieces in good condition. Is there an economical alternative that would put me in the same ballpark? How do they compare to the Otto Link hard rubber? I currently play a Yany hard rubber, but it may be a little too focused for me to match the sounds of the guys I hear that I'm trying to sound like. I get closer when I'm using the Otto Link, but I was curious how it compares.
 

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Here are pics of a '40s / early '50s Ebolin alto, made in Great Neck NY. The chambers on these is a bit bigger than on later ones, but the basic straight-sidewall design will be the same on all of them.




Not sure who's making mouthpieces like this currently other than the cheap "Goldentone" student mouthpieces; you may be able to find current-production Brilharts - not sure who makes them, or if they still are - but every one I've run across had poor finishing work. Old Buescher and King marked pieces in white plastic I've seen have had this kind of chamber, so you might keep your eyes open for those. They'll have pretty narrow tip openings, though. Actually the old Brilharts had pretty narrow tips by today's standards, too. The one above is a 2 facing and probably measures just under .070". For me it plays bigger than that, though.
 

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Is there an economical alternative that would put me in the same ballpark?
Honestly, Brilharts are pretty undervalued. You can usually score a decent Carlsbad-era Ebolin for under $100. Tonalins are a little more, Hard Rubber models are a lot more.

Not sure who's making mouthpieces like this currently other than the cheap "Goldentone" student mouthpieces; you may be able to find current-production Brilharts - not sure who makes them, or if they still are - but every one I've run across had poor finishing work.
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Actually the old Brilharts had pretty narrow tips by today's standards, too. The one above is a 2 facing and probably measures just under .070". For me it plays bigger than that, though.
I think the Phil-Tone Orion (alto & tenor) are still being sold at the introductory price around $215. They're lovely, and very much in the Brilhart soundscape. Phil's tips are a little more open, and his facings are a little longer than the original Brilharts. My alto and tenor are both 6 tips (.076" and .090" respectively), which are a little more open than I was playing on the Brillys, but because of the longer facing I can play the same reeds. That said, I'm sure Phil makes them more open than that. I'm just a weirdo who likes smaller tips these days.
 

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Talk to a mpc refacer.

One of them might take a modern Ebolin and adjust the facing and chamber to give you a good shot.

I have had several modern Ebolins worked on with great success.

I bought second hand Ebolins for cheap, since I got the narrow tip ones for the purpose of the reface, and they are disfavored.
 

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Looks like recently a couple of sellers on Ebay have grossly inflated the going rate of a run of the mill Brilly.
Yeah, there are a couple sellers who want something like $300-$400 for a standard Ebolin. And there are the people who want a bunch of money for the "Special" (aka "student") models.

I promise if I ever want to sell off some of my Ebolins I'll keep them under $100.
 

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My Orion is based off a tonalin. Its hand faced and made to order for about the same price as getting one and having it faced. You also get a trial.
They really are great. Thanks Phil!
 

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Since I've never seen a Brilhart mouthpiece (vintage or otherwise) what is the chamber/baffle design of the Ebolin and Tonalin for alto? I like the vintage jazz sound of the players I've heard using them but there is no way I could afford to purchase one of these vintage pieces in good condition. Is there an economical alternative that would put me in the same ballpark? How do they compare to the Otto Link hard rubber? I currently play a Yany hard rubber, but it may be a little too focused for me to match the sounds of the guys I hear that I'm trying to sound like. I get closer when I'm using the Otto Link, but I was curious how it compares.
I am currently playing a Tonalin #5 with my Cannonball Big Bell alto. It took me a while to find one with that tip opening as most I came across were 3's and 4's. My back up is a Morgan 7L and I have a Wanne Gaia 7 that I use when I play my YAS-62II. They are all large chamber, flat baffle mouthpieces. I get a dark, bluesy sound on all of them. I would keep an eye on this one and when it gets down around $175 snag it. https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?365956-Brilhart-Tonalin-5*-alto&highlight=Brilhart
 

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Brilhart mpcs are great and there are plenty of them for sale all the time. The ideal thing is to get older Ebolin ones that have the largest facing number you can find and without the star. The star on Brilys means short facing and what you want is the regular or long facing. Regardless of the number, the measured opening will most likely be different since their control over that was erratic and the marked size and actual size rarely matched. I owned a bunch of ordinary Ebolins years back and enjoyed playing them, but then I found a fantastic sounding Ebolin Streamline and that became my main tenor piece until I began to play in loud jams and needed something with a bigger opening and high baffle. Streamlines are one of the best models of Brilhart but they're not as cheap as Ebolins. If you find one at a low price, snatch it up--you won't be disappointed. I still play it at home because it is just so good especially since I had it opened and cleaned up by Theo Wanne a number of years ago and it got even better. It's the mouthpiece on the right in this photo below.

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You'll notice that it has a hose clamp on it, which is to keep the obvious crack that you can see in the shank from spreading farther. Cracks in the shanks of Brilhart Ebolin and Tonalin mpcs are commonplace because the plastic can crack easily if it is pushed onto a new neck cork that is too tight. It's really just a cosmetic problem and doesn't affect the playing, although it might have an effect on the selling price. I put a bit of superglue in that crack before banding it, so It's not going to get worse.

Next to it I put my old 1950's Rico Reloplex plastic mpc made by M.C. Gregory that came with my 1945 Martin tenor when I got it years ago. I assume that it was played by the sax's owner, a man who had died. His trombone playing buddy was who sold the sax on Ebay for the guy's widow. He didn't know any more about saxes than she did but knew how to sell online because the mouthpiece was a surprise. When the sax came I immediately played it with the Reloplex and it sounded really good as I remember, but when I had the sax set up properly and the old neck cork changed to fit my mouthpieces, the Reloplex no longer fit because it has a smaller diameter bore. Later on I also had to band it with a hose clamp because it developed very light cracks in the shank that go around the circumference rather than down the bore from trying to force it on the neck cork.

The reason I am showing it with the Brily is so you can see the close similarity in the design of the two pieces which would suggest that this Reloplex plays a lot like a Brilhart. Notice that they both have a slight bit of roll over baffle at the tip, straight sidewalls, an Arched throat that is wider at the bottom with a bit of hollow in the floor of the large open round chamber. About the only differences I can find in these mpcs is that the Brilhart has a smaller tip opening at .081, even after being opened by Theo, than the Reloplex which was and is .090 from the getgo. It's marked a 5P and has never been worked on. So while they may have a similar sound quality the Reloplex will naturally be louder.

Supposedly Elmer Beechler oversaw the making of this mpc for Rico--according to Theo's Mouthpiece Museum page on Gregory Mpcs--but that doesn't necessarily mean he or anyone at Rico couldn't have just copied the already successful design of the plastic Brilhart mpc already going strong. I would even wager that that they did since since their own mpcs were HR and not plastic which is why they had to get Rico to make them for them. Copying the Brilhart design would have saved them a good deal of time and cost.

So the reason I've mentioned it at all is that while Vintage Brilharts are between $250 and $400, Reloplexes go for less than $150 and often they don't even go at all. They used to be priced around $60 but that seems to have doubled lately. They aren't hot items--I tried to sell mine years ago for something like $75 and nobody cared, so I kept it. Thus I imagine you could find an alto model in good condition of the right tip opening for you and make an offer the seller wouldn't refuse. Even if it cost you a bit over $100, it would be little to spend for something that may be just what you're looking for. The only caveat I want to give is that I have never played an alto one and so don't know how they play.
 

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Brilhart mpcs are great and there are plenty of them for sale all the time. The ideal thing is to get older Ebolin ones that have the largest facing number you can find and without the star. The star on Brilys means short facing and what you want is the regular or long facing.
The short facings aren't bad, but if you're not used to playing a short facing they may take a little getting used to. All but one of my Brilharts have short facings, as does a very nice long shank Selmer Soloist I picked up a couple months ago. Lovely, lovely pieces. And if you're gonna have it refaced anyway then it doesn't matter.

Mojo did a great job with one of my tenor Ebolins. Put a nice.085" tip with a medium facing on it. Killer piece that I play often, but overall I still prefer my white Personaline S5 (S = short).

Also, while they are getting harder to find, the Marmaduke Pastel Tone and Gigliotti Spectrum are supposedly inexpensive Brilhart copies.
 

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The short facings aren't bad, but if you're not used to playing a short facing they may take a little getting used to. All but one of my Brilharts have short facings, as does a very nice long shank Selmer Soloist I picked up a couple months ago. Lovely, lovely pieces. And if you're gonna have it refaced anyway then it doesn't matter.

Mojo did a great job with one of my tenor Ebolins. Put a nice.085" tip with a medium facing on it. Killer piece that I play often, but overall I still prefer my white Personaline S5 (S = short).

Also, while they are getting harder to find, the Marmaduke Pastel Tone and Gigliotti Spectrum are supposedly inexpensive Brilhart copies.
Nice post. Thanks for the heads up on those two makes of mpc.

As to the short facing, for some reason there always seem to be more of them around than the regular facing. At that time I found the short ones just a tad squirrely to play because my embouchure was not yet adjusted to them. I got a regular one and it was great. Very cheap too. Then I lucked into my Streamline and fell in love with it. I still love it and play it even though I also have a Vintage HR Personaline as well. They both are wonderful to play. The only difference is that the Personaline was opened to .100 by Eric G for Mark Sepulneck from whom I bought it and the Streamline is just .081. The reason for the smaller opening is that the body of the Streamline has so little extra material on it that Theo couldn't risk the curve breaking if he tried to open it up more than that. To open a mpc up there has to be enough material to remove to get the right curve and opening. Nonetheless it is a wonderful piece to play. I'd love to find one for alto.
 

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Nice job, but then again Mojo's work is always good. I simply chose to put the chinese five & dime hose clamp on it because a) I always look for the expedient, quick and dirty solution that b) is the cheapest and c) the quickest. I didn't have to send it off to anyone and then pay them their hourly to do what this 50 cent piece of hardware could do even more quickly. Also I didn't want a band that would hide the engraved Streamline Logo on the shank and simply taking this off allows it to be seen if anyone wants to see it. Yes, it looks DIY, but my sax is no glitzy Blingophone either. Ain't nobody who doesn't know what it is would steal it from me either unlike a glitzy diamond encrusted Rhodium Guardala or Klum. Or is that Rhododendron?
 

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Nice job, but then again Mojo's work is always good. I simply chose to put the chinese five & dime hose clamp on it because a) I always look for the expedient, quick and dirty solution that b) is the cheapest and c) the quickest. I didn't have to send it off to anyone and then pay them their hourly to do what this 50 cent piece of hardware could do even more quickly. Also I didn't want a band that would hide the engraved Streamline Logo on the shank and simply taking this off allows it to be seen if anyone wants to see it. Yes, it looks DIY, but my sax is no glitzy Blingophone either. Ain't nobody who doesn't know what it is would steal it from me either unlike a glitzy diamond encrusted Rhodium Guardala or Klum. Or is that Rhododendron?
Well, just so you're aware, that ring sizer method was easy to do, took less than five minutes and cost approx $10.
 

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Well, just so you're aware, that ring sizer method was easy to do, took less than five minutes and cost approx $10.
Whoa!! Really? Did he do it or you did it yourself? Does the Engraving on the Shank show fully with it on?
 

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I believe the reason for the common cracks is more about their refusal to ream the bore, leaving it in the as molded condition, which means it has a taper. Pushing a mouthpiece with an internal taper onto the cork creates enormous hoop stress even when it doesn't feel like it's taking much axial force - it's probably a 1.5 or 2 degree taper.

If you ream the ID of the mouthpiece to make it properly cylindrical it will prevent the problem. I own a white mouthpiece, one of the many that, according to Mark Fleming, was made off the same basic tooling as the Brilharts, and it's cracked. I banded it wtih white thread, like the way you wrap the line guides on a fishing rod. Then I secured it with clear epoxy. I doubt it will ever go anywhere.

There appear to have been (see M Fleming) many mouthpiece brands molded off the same tooling as the Brilhart mouthpieces, so if you don't care what name is embossed on it you can probably get a mouthpiece that plays exactly like a Brilhart for a lot less money.
 
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