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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey folks,

Got this a number of years ago at an auction hoping to eventually learn to play. Well, 25 or so years later, not so much. Hoping to learn in retirement, which is in 5 years or so. I know this is a stencil of what is most likely a Buescher, and I realize the sax itself may not be from 1914 - I think that is the date for the bell of the horn?

Physically, seems to be in good sha[e, no damaged or missing parts ( small dent in horn bell).

Anyway, I am wondering if this is worth getting fixed up (pads, oiled, cleaning, etc) or when the time comes just rent one and see how it goes. I realize it probably isn't worth much, although it seems it was well used so may have a good sound?

Anyway, opinions would be appreciated. I am cleaning things out of my home and came across this, so figured I'd ask!

thanks!

Al
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2013-
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You need to look up the Conn stencil tenors, such as "Pan American."

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...n-Am-Other-Conn-Stencil-Same-As-New-Wonder-II

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?213772-Pan-American-Serial-Number-dating-Study

"Finally, I'm asked often about serial number and model charts for Conn stencil horns: there are no official charts for either. Stencil serial numbers starting with a P APPEAR to be +50,000 off on the Conn serial number chart for split bell key horns (i.e. a s/n P2xxx horn. 50,000+2000=52,000. According to a Conn s/n chart, 52,000 was made in 1919) and appears to be at least 200,000 off for LH bell key horns."
http://www.saxpics.com/conn/docs/numbers.htm

The "T" means you have a tenor in Bb and the "L" means you have the good kind ("L"ow pitch).
If the 50,000 fudge is right, then your horn was made about the same time as a 62,000 standard Conn, which would be about 1920-ish.

Or I could be all wet, because the Conn stencil for Carl Fischer is not like the Pan American.
 

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Welcome to SOTW! Yes, Conn, not Buescher - the clue for me is the way the info is stamped on the back of the horn. Buescher stamped out the whole two words - LOW PITCH.

What you do with it depends on your budget. If money is tight, I'd think you could do better by just buying a complete, playable old tenor. But if this horn has sentimental value to you and you can afford it, you may be surprised at how well it will play when properly overhauled. Forget the finish - that will clean up when the horn is overhauled, but I sure wouldn't do anything other than that to the finish. DAVE
 

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If you are going to keep it for a while, it MAY be worth overhauling but the cost of the repad may exceed the value of the horn. I would take it to a tech and see how much to just get it in playing condition.
I agree that it is a standard Pan-American like a Conn but with no rolled tone holes. It appears to not have pearls which brings the value down. Probably worth about $300 as it is now.
 

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Thanks Stocker! I hadn't been to the Loyalist since the sax numbers were listed. I have a bill of sale for a flute and those numbers seem to work for the flutes too except the very early P-As that had Conn numbers.
 

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Well, once again I am late to the Party . .. .

This is a Pan American model 52M Tenor stencil, from 1922 based on my developing revisions. Like with so many stencils identifying one sax brand to a specific manufacturer does not identify all saxes under that brand to a specific manufacturer. The brands belonged to the reseller and they changed from instrument to instrument and year to year.

Btw - Bruce, I saw you mentioning Pan American flutes. The serials for the woodwinds were under s separate system for Pan American from the saxes. They looked to have merged though at serial 100,000 in 1950. I am developing the serial system for the woodwinds and hope to publish soon.

Best to all,
Kurt
 

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Hi Al, I have an identical tenor to yours, serial P8187. It seems to date from around 1920. I bought it on ebay about 17 years ago, and, like you, intended to learn on it! As we are now in lockdown, I've had time to change about half of the pads and it sounds great. Or it would in the hands of someone competent! As the old girl is coming up for 100 years I would be interested to know if you ever pinned down the date?
cheers
Les
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
First, let me say thank you to all who posted and answered my questions those 5 years ago. A number of things happened shortly after I posted, so never got back to you all. Hopefully, you are all around to still thank!

Les - I never did any followup on it, but have no reason to doubt Kurt's analysis. Funny, after I posted it, I put it back away, and now am in process of selling house so it is in an auction. We'll see how it goes.

Still hoping to learn in retirement - although that looks like 2021, not 2020!

Stay healthy all!

Thanks again all!
 
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