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Cantaloupe Island + 1st improvisation

8K views 11 replies 8 participants last post by  rleitch 
#1 ·
Hi everybody!
I'd like to share with you my cover of Cantaloupe Island by Herbie Hancock, I've done also my first (decent) improvisation in F.

Any advice would be appreciated. :)



Thanks,
Matteo
 
#2 ·
Hey Matteo,

Thanks for posting. Getting your stuff out there can be hard when you are your own biggest critic.

I just want to say that you are getting a good tone out of the horn. It's a pretty centered some what bright sound. And all your notes start evenly. They don't blat out.

You got a little fumbled in the head the 2nd time round. In fact the backing sounded like it came in in sort of a weird spot and my ear had to adjust to where the one actually was. When you came to the 2nd time through you got a little tripped up with the timing but ended it well.

You've got some good ideas in the improvisation. Playing with growling a bit. Some cool repeated phrases. Using space. All good. But the shape of the tune gets a little lost in that you are playing a lot of one scale over each of the chords and that the way you are phrasing doesn't land as well with where the strong beats are in the groove.

There are always many things to work on. But I think there is a lot to be said on learning to listen to the groove. It can tell you what notes to play and where to come in and end if you listen hard enough. Expand your knowledge of different sounds and you'll have more to draw on. Get into some jazz theory and you'll know why what you're playing sounds the way it does and you'll be able to create more dynamic and creative improvisations.

It's a never ending journey to get better. I'd just say to keep practicing. Keep recording and keep an open mind. You'll be surprised how quickly things start to work themselves out.

Keep at it.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Thank you dude, both for analysis and praises.
You did a very good analysis of my cover, it will help me to get better, and thanks also for your precious tips!
 
#4 ·
Hi Matteo,

Love this tune! I mostly agree with Sean's comments. (I didn't listen as carefully to the placement of the line relative to the backing on the head, though, so although he's probably right I can't comment on it one way or the other.) The kind of tone and note production that he praises are
areas I find particularly difficult, and you indeed do them well. I tend to have problems with "blatting out" especially in the low register. Since I play a YTS-23, your post may inspire me to try a regular tonedge instead of my current "New Vintage"... you are playing a regular one, right? I'm assuming 25 is the updated model corresponding to the 23?

I only had one other observation on your take beyond Sean's, which is that in the last note of the first (or maybe it's the second, depending how you count...anyway, the 8th note of the tune) phrase (and analogous phrases later one) of the head, I think it would sound better if the accenting were reversed, i.e. placed on the last note of the phrase instead of the next-to-last. That is syncopated, but sounds better to me. Funkier. If you can't find the place I"ll hunt down a lead sheet and pinpoint it. It's just my taste, though, you might prefer the other way of course... Other than that I liked the phrasing in the head pretty well.

One other comment for improvising is that even over a modal tune, playing some beboppish phrases, like ii V7 's either in the key you're in or anticipating a change in chord, can sound very cool. It can add some harmonic movement and interest. Not that I have mastered this, I am definitely still a learner, but I can hear it in others' playing sometimes, including guys like Wayne Shorter who play a lot of these modal tunes. Ditto George Coleman, e.g. on Herbie Hancock's Maiden Voyage. Stanley Turrentine and Gene Ammons also do it, usually in a more soul-jazz or funky blues context but again, often over one-chord or few-chord jams. But I don't know if you're into ii V7's yet. If you are, I would say mess around with them on this tune and see if you can get something to fit.

So I agree, keep it up, you've got a great sound, some good ideas, definitely a foundation worth developing further.


Howard
 
#5 ·
Hi Matteo, that's a nice clip :).

You have a nice tone and a good feel for leaving space in your playing. Sean and Howard gave you already some good advices above. I would recommend to try to put a bit more ear in the horn, which will make your upper register a bit fuller (a harder reed could help also). Timing was not always spot on, so try listen to as much music as you can.

We did this tune as TOTM (Tune Of The Month) in January of this year, see this thread:
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...for-January-2012-Cantaloupe-Island-(H.Hancock

Keep up the good work :).
 
#8 ·
Thanks for sharing! I tihnk you are definitely on the right track, and I agree with Sean and Howards comments.

Not sure who you're a fan of or influenced by, but I agree with all those players who would say to play the later jazz styles like modal, hard bop, post-bop, soul jazz, fusion...it really helps to know your bebop. Howard raises a real good idea - a lot of great players would work in some bebop lines and probably some chord substitutions too...your feel was good and I think you got the spirit of the tune pretty well. A lot of guys would just blow chops all over this, it's good to leave space and develop some of the more basic motifs as you did.

Funny, we did this as a TOTM a while back. In one of my typically average performances, I played around with going out at the end on minor blues changes...just thinking of the bebop thing (might have removed my audio by now). I'm sure there were a bunch of interesting performances in that thread...

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?172231-SOTW-TOTM-for-January-2012-Cantaloupe-Island-(H.Hancock

There's some great versions of this on You Tube... Hancock, Metheny, Holland, DeJohnette, Herbie with Freddie Hubbard joe Henderson on Night with Blue Note Preserved, etc. Metheny bops out with all kinds of extended harmonic stuff (beyond what I can understand)..love the feel coming into the head at the end!

Hancock/Holland/DeJohnette/Metheny 1990

here's a textbook example of using bebop language in a more contemporary context. Tune is basic 3 chord rock and roll suffle beat. But, Brecker slips in all these crazy bebop turnaround lines at times (his trademark advanced language is there but a Bird/Cannonball bop feel comes through for me at least too...), keeping it fresh and interesting. Great contrast to the "shout" and altissimo stuff he's playing in a more conventional rock and roll style...it's an advanced example, but what a blast! Brecker with Late Night band

(Charles McNeal has a transcription on his website if you're curious about the lines...)
LeavingMyTroubles_.pdf

Guys like Dick Oatts, Vincent Herring, Joe Henderson, Brecker, Bob Berg... all great contemporary players to listen to and all know there bebop. I'm sure they all spent a lot of time checking out Bird, Cannonball, Sonny Stitt, Prez, Hank Mobley, Dexter Gordon, Wardell Gray, Gene Ammons.
 
#10 ·
Hi Matteo,

Like everyone is saying, you've got a good tone coming out. And you're definitely in the right track to getting better especially you've got a lot of cats here in SOTW who are willing to share their knowledge and expertise to guide your way.

One recommendation I can give you is to try and play with your favorite tune done by your favorite player. Try to copy their playing as much as you can. Listen very carefully on how they articulate and try to imitate that. When you play with the track, try your best to play in unison with the player as if it sounded like there's only one instrument playing. This will develop a lot of skills like your chops, articulation, breath support, feel and time just to name a few.

Good luck and keep blowing that horn!!
 
#11 ·
Thanks you so much guys for the comments and for listening to my cover, I very appreciate it!
You gave me more desire to keep it up than I had!
I'll put your tips into pratice!

To answer the Oilywrag's question: I had some problems with video editing!

@PowerOfSouls: about the part you said... I followed the play-along Aebersold as there is written on! At first I played it as you said, but after a while I changed my mind (listening to the original studio version... :) )

And... about bebops scales I'm not at that level but I'll study them soon! Idem for "ii V7".

Thanks again and best wishes for the holidays!
 
#12 ·
And... about bebops scales I'm not at that level but I'll study them soon!
No need to wait to learn the bebop scales--just play your major scales with one more note.

There are two places to add the note:

You can add a "sharp V" [in C that's G#] or a "flat Vii" [in C that's a Bb].

It's a really good idea to practice the bebop scales before moving on to ii-V patterns because many of the cool sounding patterns are based on the bebop scales.

Keep going brother!
 
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