[rhythmisking]

Just won this System alto:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEBLANC-ALTO-SAXOPHONE-MADE-FRANCE-CASE-1-84734-/300608538765?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fdaa488d

Seemed like it may have been a bit under the radar with the way it was listed, but maybe I just outsmarted myself (that happens fairly often). As it was being sold by a pawn shop through a selling service, there was no way to get any specifics about playability. It looks to be in fairly decent shape outside of some pads needing replacing, but it was really a crap shoot on my part. I've been intrigued by these horns for a long time but haven't ever played one. I was hoping to get it a little cheaper (duh), but I seemed to be be bidding against someone who had the same max bid in mind as myself. I'm hoping I can get it in decent playing shape for a few hundred and have a fun backup horn to my Mk VII, but based on what some people have said about these, who knows, maybe it will end up the other way around

Did I get a good deal, or just $400 of extra headaches? Anyone else around SF with one of these? Any advice on getting it regulated? Lee Kramka in SF does most of my work.

 

[eugeneherman]

Great pick up... Your Leblanc 'Rationale' for $400 is a good deal! Lucky you!

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'd say that could well be a good deal, even with a complete repad and hopefully that won't be necessary but I bet there will be some work required.

I had one of these once and it was a very good horn and an intriguing fingering system.

 

[milandro]

great, make sure you have a tech who knows what to do with it

 

[edwin]

Fascinating. This link makes interesting reading if, like me, you hadn't heard of this.

Would be great if the OP could keep us posted on how it goes.

 

[FremontSax]

Model 100 sn 1230

at $426 this was a great deal. my guess late 1960's early 1970's vintage. I am in the sf area and have both a tenor and an alto. Gabe Eaton at allegro music in Fremont has worked on these for me. This is the second time this particular sax has popped up. If the serial number isn't 1230 please let me know.

 

[FremontSax]

at a second look i think the serial number is 1280

 

[rhythmisking]

I had noticed that #1230 was on your list, but at second glance it does look like this one is #1280, which I'm thinking puts it a couple years from the end of the run for these. It's impossible to make any judgement about its playing condition from the pictures, but I was most encouraged by the case which is original and looks very good, so I'm hoping the needs of this horn are more from being idle than from being heavily gigged with. It looks like someone either deliberately or accidentally removed the lacquer from the bell, maybe attempting to polish it, which implies an hobbyist or maybe a kid owning it which could be either a good thing or a bad thing (good if they didn't do much else to it - bad if they attempted other 'repairs' themselves). I'll keep y'all posted on the horn; it should be here sometime next week. Thanks for the heads up about Allegro Music, Fremontsax. I'm going to talk to Lee K. and see if he's facile with these babies. He's a great tech and only about 2 miles from my house, but if he isn't enthusiastic I'll check out the guy in Fremont!

 

[rhythmisking]

The horn arrived yesterday. The horn is not playable. Overall the horn seems mechanically intact; in fact it seems to have been extremely well cared for. BUT it has a large dent on the bottom of the bow AND the left hand pinky cluster is banjaxed with the B and C# keys jammed one on top of the other. There is also some play between these rods and their posts. The bell is loose, although the brace attachments are solid and the receiving cups are intact the rod connecting them moves. Additionally anything that can be out of adjustment is, and with the mechanical complexity of these horns that takes "out of adjustment" to a whole new level. The case is completely pristine and original, it came with a very old and heavily played C. Chedeville mpc and a pad saver; essentially the horn itself appears to have been carefully cared for and babied through its life as it's otherwise in extremely fine condition. I'll bet 6 months ago this horn was a absolute sweetheart. The seller carefully showed every little blemish on the horn but somehow missed the 1.5" by 1/2" deep whammy at the bottom of the bow. My guess is as it was being packed for shipping the horn got dropped, probably from about 3 or 4 feet straight down onto the bow right below the C# tonehole knocking everything out of adjustment, bending a couple posts for the pinky cluster and rendering the horn unplayable. And off to eBay it went........

I'm going to challenge this with the seller as this doesn't even come close to the eBay definition of "used" but perfectly meets the definition for "For parts/not working"

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'm going to challenge this with the seller as this doesn't even come close to the eBay definition of "used" but perfectly meets the definition for "For parts/not working"

Yes, you should challenge them, but it may not be straightforward.

The condition you describe is how I expect a horn from ebay will be, however the big dent and pinkly keys issue don't appear to be in the (admittedly not brilliant) pictures.

But this is possibly the good news:

"RETURNS: We guarantee the item or items in our auctions to be as described and pictured or your money back."

 

[MartinMusicMan]

Hi, Paul. I just saw this thread come up under what's new. I'm sorry to hear that it's unplayable. (Paul stopped in at my house last night before picking up the horn.) It does sound like something happened to it before or during shipping. I looked at the pix as I'm sure you did and what you describe doesn't look like it was there in the pix. Bummer. Yes, I think you should dispute this.

I knew nothing about these horns before you told me about them. Sorry about your bad experience, but I've learned something, especially from edwin's link. Now I'm fascinated to try one of these.

And I'm even more nervous about the Martin Indiana alto that's coming my way ...

 

[rhythmisking]

For sure I expected the horn to need some regulation, maybe some pads, set up, etc. I'd expect that of any eBay horn. To be completely unplayable and damaged...no. The description mentioned "a few small dents" which means they knew about this because otherwise the horn is immaculate; not a single (other) ding or dent anywhere on it, but obviously they didn't even check to see if all the keys functioned, let alone if it could be played.

 

[milandro]

I took another look at the pictures and indeed there are many pictures showing all sorts of details but amazingly not the bow (with the exception of one unrevealing one of the inside of the bell) which might point out to the fact that the horn was damaged at time it was offered to you and purposely photographed in a way that would hide the main problem here.

I am sorry to see that this has turned into a nightmare since this horn could be fixed and made playable but at a very considerable cost and what looked like a great deal will turn out to be an expensive horn with a visible repair not to mention the fact that not every technician out there is familiar or capable to fix a horn this complicated and if some passionate and capable tech would take on such an arduous repair he or she would certainly charge you a very hefty price.

I also re-read several times their sales conditions , they have protected themselves well there ( local pick up not available....... just in case someone local would have bought it and when arriving there with the cash would have never accepted to buy the horn in the state it was!) but I would inform them you intend to return the horn (you have to do this quickly) and regardless I would get in touch with ebay and paypal to try to revert the sale and recuperate at least the money for the horn (they are not paying for the shipping price ). This seller must be brought to the attention of this community in order for us to stay absolutely clear of the items which they offer! (although they sell a colourful array of items only few of which are saxophone related )




I am very sorry for you!

 

[rhythmisking]

Okay, the seller is willing to refund my money including return postage. I don't know what to do. I need to get a professional estimate of what the repair cost will be. If this was a 50 year old Vito or Beaugnier it would already be packed and on it's way back. There were only 1500 of these made, altos and tenors combined. I've gone over this horn from top to bottom. It's kind of an amazing instrument. The action, even totally out of adjustment is light, fast and precise (better than my MK VII which has a flawless set up). Aside from the damage, the horn is in excellent shape, needing only a few pads and a set up. If this horn was in playing condition, I figure it would be worth ~$1K. I'm into it for less than half of that. The misaligned keys are not THAT far off; I think they will be fairly easy to put right. The dent is just a dent. With those fixed, a few pads and a set up, this would be an awesome horn. If I can get it put right without going badly underwater, I think I may do it. I know of two techs in the area who I would trust to work on this. I need to find out just how bad this really is before I decide what to do with it. I'm afraid if I send it back, it will always be "the one that got away"....

 

[MartinMusicMan]

You're in love with her. And even though she's damaged goods, you think you can "fix" her to make her the love object of your dreams. Only you can decide if you want to go down that road.:dontknow:

 

[rhythmisking]

She's just so pretty...

 

[MartinMusicMan]

she's just so pretty...

lol

 

[MartinMusicMan]

For your next ebay purchase, consider this

Sorry, just had to post it somewhere.

 

[rhythmisking]

omg

 

[milandro]

Well, it is your call.

Purely from a economic point of view.......... it will cost you more if you repair it than if you would find one without that damage.

Don't forget that repairs to the bow will be always visible at the very least because the lacquer would be gone there. Repairing the bottom fin will be the most difficult thing.

Re-adjusting the whole horn will also take the skills of a better and more expensive technician who would spend more time on this horn because of his unusual mechanics and consequently charge you more for it.

I understand you are enamoured with this horn but are you going to invest 1000$ for the repair, plus what you paid for a horn that won't be ever worth as much when fixed? If the answer is yes than do it because of the fun of it, but from an economic point of view I would return the item and start looking for a perfect one for 1500$.