cannonball's king super 20
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He played both. I heard that he recorded with a Super 20 and performed with a Silversonic. I've only seen him with pearled Kings (he played a Selmer Mark VI for a brief period. I also heard that was because he was experimenting with the Varitone, but don't take my word for it). So that would put the serial number between 305xxx and 340xxx. My guess is that it would be between 305xxx and 315xxx, but that's just an assumption.
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Doesn't give you the answer you were looking for, but there's some interesting information on Cannonball's saxes (soprano as well as alto) on his album "Accent on Africa - The Cannonball Adderley Quintet". The front cover of the LP sleeve has a picture of Cannonball playing soprano in some sand dunes, with his alto around his neck.
1968 recording date given, and on the sleeve notes it says:
NOTES CONCERNING THE INSTRUMENTATION:
On "Gunjah" and "Lehadima" the Selmer Soprano Saxophone
On "Ndolima" and "Khutsana" the S.M.L. Soprano Saxophone
On "Gumba Gumba" and "Hamba Nami" the Selmer Varitone
On "Khutsana" and "Marabi" and "Up and At It" the King Super 20 Alto Saxophone.
All the best
Rhys
1968 recording date given, and on the sleeve notes it says:
NOTES CONCERNING THE INSTRUMENTATION:
On "Gunjah" and "Lehadima" the Selmer Soprano Saxophone
On "Ndolima" and "Khutsana" the S.M.L. Soprano Saxophone
On "Gumba Gumba" and "Hamba Nami" the Selmer Varitone
On "Khutsana" and "Marabi" and "Up and At It" the King Super 20 Alto Saxophone.
All the best
Rhys
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When I saw him in the early (62-63) sixties, he was playing a Super 20, but it wasn't a Silversonic (had the underslung silver neck, but the rest of the horn was lacquered.).
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Just curious if you could get up close to him. A lot of the Silversonics were lacquered over the silver bell. Not that I'm doubting you, and I'm sure he played the Super 20 out quite a bit (I think he arrived in New York with a Super 20, the Silversonics were probably given to him by King, or at least sold at a reduced price.)
I do envy you for having had the chance to see him live. What was it like?
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Apparently Cannonball had quite a number of Super20s. Several of them, including a completely mint Silversonic in the late 3xx,xxx range, ended up in the possession of Andrew Speight, an Aussie who now teaches and performs in the San Francisco area. Apparently his dad had some connection to Cannonball...
I got the opportunity to see and hear the horn up close in a workshop where I ended up in a combo 'coached' by Andrew. He's a monster be-bopper, although he now plays a Yanagisawa alto with the same silver/brass configuration of the Silversonic, I think it's a 993x of sorts.
I got the opportunity to see and hear the horn up close in a workshop where I ended up in a combo 'coached' by Andrew. He's a monster be-bopper, although he now plays a Yanagisawa alto with the same silver/brass configuration of the Silversonic, I think it's a 993x of sorts.
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Maybe, maybe not. If a great playing Silversonic is not being played, that would be a shame. If a great playing Silversonic has the soul play into it and out of it through every nook and cranny by one of the best players in the world (definitely one of the best King players), well then, maybe it can be put down and retired, job well done.
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Additional info via the Cannonball Adderley Rendez-Vous website: https://www.cannonball-adderley.com/saxset.htm
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I don't mean to hijack this thread but I am wondering about Adderley's Meyer 5 mouthpiece. Would that be a .070 tip like the modern Meyer mouthpieces or a .080" like some of the earlier vintage Meyers or was it perhaps refaced to something else? It had that metal shank ring which was an alteration of a kind. Sounds like a bigger tip than .070" to me.
Tenor: Eastman 52nd St, Alto: P. Mauriat 67RDK, Soprano: Eastern Music Curvy
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The shank wasn't an alteration, it was due to a crack in the piece and stopped it from spreading/affecting/ruining the mouthpiece. As to tip opening, I'd say it was the of the era, near the .080 (if that is indeed how the vintage Meyer NYs tip openings were, I wasn't aware they had changed.)
Reference: https://theowanne.com/knowledge/mouthpiece-museum/meyer-mouthpieces/
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Ralph Morgan wrote an article for The Saxophone Journal (1995) regarding Meyer tip openings, and the evolution of Meyer mouthpieces.
https://www.dornpub.com/SaxjPDF/meyer.pdf
Most original Meyer Bro 5 alto pieces are in the .069-.073 tip range as with their NYUSA brothers, I've owned a number of originals of both.
Cannonball can be seen playing a NYUSA 5 in the late 60s on a number of youtube clips. He sounds the same, perhaps his talent has something to do with it?
Cannonball sounds to my ear like he is making the alto sing with a 5 tip and a soft reed. You don't get that cooking alto sizzle out of big tips and hard reeds. Phil Woods NYUSA 5 was measured at .073 he also got a big sound out of a small tip, as did Charles McPherson and many other great alto players.
Cannonball can be seen playing a NYUSA 5 in the late 60s on a number of youtube clips. He sounds the same, perhaps his talent has something to do with it?
Cannonball sounds to my ear like he is making the alto sing with a 5 tip and a soft reed. You don't get that cooking alto sizzle out of big tips and hard reeds. Phil Woods NYUSA 5 was measured at .073 he also got a big sound out of a small tip, as did Charles McPherson and many other great alto players.
Tenor: Eastman 52nd St, Alto: P. Mauriat 67RDK, Soprano: Eastern Music Curvy
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Wow this is a great read! Thanks G!
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Someone on a FB group a while back posted first-hand accounts of the horns Adderley played. I lost the source but I did copy and save the info. The most legendary recordings were done on this one:
Super 20 SilverSonic SII #319xxx
Full pearls, sterling bell with gold leaf, brass LH table, sterling double socket neck, pearl barrel rollers, gold leaf bell.
Made in 1951.
Acquired in early 1958.
Played '58-'60.
Used a M.C. Gregory Hollywood/LA resin/hybrid model. Opened up & re-faced by Claude Humber in Texas. Brass shank band crack repair.
Example sessions:
- Milestones
- Somethin' Else
- Quintet in Chicago
- Kind of Blue
- Cannonball Takes Charge
![B1mt4U9tq0S._SL600_.jpg]()
From someone else (I need to start writing down my sources!) who handled and played his Meyer mouthpiece, he said it was customized with a chamber larger than a Meyer large chamber, and faced with a 7-8 and a longer lay.
Super 20 SilverSonic SII #319xxx
Full pearls, sterling bell with gold leaf, brass LH table, sterling double socket neck, pearl barrel rollers, gold leaf bell.
Made in 1951.
Acquired in early 1958.
Played '58-'60.
Used a M.C. Gregory Hollywood/LA resin/hybrid model. Opened up & re-faced by Claude Humber in Texas. Brass shank band crack repair.
Example sessions:
- Milestones
- Somethin' Else
- Quintet in Chicago
- Kind of Blue
- Cannonball Takes Charge
From someone else (I need to start writing down my sources!) who handled and played his Meyer mouthpiece, he said it was customized with a chamber larger than a Meyer large chamber, and faced with a 7-8 and a longer lay.
It would be terrific if every statement about famous players equipment was backed up with the source.
There is a wealth of misinformation out there in mouthpiece equipment land, check any famous players equipment on google and you will find a list of contrary details.
It is fun to hear peoples stories about great players equipment, even if most of it is simply wrong.
There are a lot of close up photographs of Cannonball playing a Meyer Bro with a metal repair on the shank, there are pictures of Cannonball playing an MC Gregory earlier in his career. From listening alone I can't tell when Cannonball is playing a Meyer Bro, a NYUSA or a Berg.
I believe Cannonball played his most famous sessions using an original Meyer Bro 5 with a .070-.073 tip, and a soft reed, this is the piece with a repair on the shank.
This is based on Cannonball's own statements about his equipment,plus photographic evidence from the albums he performed on and further supported by hearing what colors can be achieved by playing various S20 altos and Meyer Bro mouthpieces with medium and soft reeds...just to say, a whole bag of candy floss!
Without verifiable sources to back it up this remains an "objective uncertainty, held fervently in the most passionate inwardness", it's true enough to keep me going.
There is a wealth of misinformation out there in mouthpiece equipment land, check any famous players equipment on google and you will find a list of contrary details.
It is fun to hear peoples stories about great players equipment, even if most of it is simply wrong.
There are a lot of close up photographs of Cannonball playing a Meyer Bro with a metal repair on the shank, there are pictures of Cannonball playing an MC Gregory earlier in his career. From listening alone I can't tell when Cannonball is playing a Meyer Bro, a NYUSA or a Berg.
I believe Cannonball played his most famous sessions using an original Meyer Bro 5 with a .070-.073 tip, and a soft reed, this is the piece with a repair on the shank.
This is based on Cannonball's own statements about his equipment,plus photographic evidence from the albums he performed on and further supported by hearing what colors can be achieved by playing various S20 altos and Meyer Bro mouthpieces with medium and soft reeds...just to say, a whole bag of candy floss!
Without verifiable sources to back it up this remains an "objective uncertainty, held fervently in the most passionate inwardness
", it's true enough to keep me going.I always hear his sound as a smaller tip, softer reed combination. I always think that’s how you get that “wet” sound on saxophone.
You get too open and you lose a lot of that color and nuance.
Years ago, after my mint SBA alto was stolen and I was on an alto search, I came across a silver neck Super alto I should’ve bought. It was re-lacquered poorly and needed a lot of work, but it screamed.
I never felt that way about the Super 20 tenors I’ve tried.
You get too open and you lose a lot of that color and nuance.
Years ago, after my mint SBA alto was stolen and I was on an alto search, I came across a silver neck Super alto I should’ve bought. It was re-lacquered poorly and needed a lot of work, but it screamed.
I never felt that way about the Super 20 tenors I’ve tried.
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Look at this zoom from one of Cannon's photos showing the "banded" crack-repaired mouthpiece from the side in semi-decent lighting. You can clearly see, without a doubt, that the angle where the beak meets the barrel is far too steep -- almost straight vertical -- and the barrel is far too high in comparison to the beak to be any vintage/type of Meyer.It would be terrific if every statement about famous players equipment was backed up with the source.
There is a wealth of misinformation out there in mouthpiece equipment land, check any famous players equipment on google and you will find a list of contrary details.
It is fun to hear peoples stories about great players equipment, even if most of it is simply wrong.
There are a lot of close up photographs of Cannonball playing a Meyer Bro with a metal repair on the shank, there are pictures of Cannonball playing an MC Gregory earlier in his career. From listening alone I can't tell when Cannonball is playing a Meyer Bro, a NYUSA or a Berg.
I believe Cannonball played his most famous sessions using an original Meyer Bro 5 with a .070-.073 tip, and a soft reed, this is the piece with a repair on the shank.
This is based on Cannonball's own statements about his equipment,plus photographic evidence from the albums he performed on and further supported by hearing what colors can be achieved by playing various S20 altos and Meyer Bro mouthpieces with medium and soft reeds...just to say, a whole bag of candy floss!
Without verifiable sources to back it up this remains an "objective uncertainty, held fervently in the most passionate inwardness
This famous brass shank-banded mouthpiece is an M.C. Gregory Hollywood/LA resin & hard rubber combo compound, with a very big (tall) chamber (extra low floor) and a mild roll-over baffle, opened up by Claude Humber to more like an 8(+) tip opening (.087-.090") with a longer deeper facing to boot. This type of Gregory was notoriously prone to cracking, just from normal movement on-and-off the neck cork.
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