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We probably all have a friend or two who can't feel rhythm/tempo/time in music. My best friend, when a song comes on, will snap his fingers way off time and not have a clue that he is off.

Is this something that could be "fixed"? He has said in passing that he'd like to try to learn an instrument, but without an internal metronome (I guess I'll call it that) I don't know how it would go.

If you're a teacher, have you run across anyone like this and were they able to "get it" eventually? Or does it have to be something innate that you were born with?
 

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.....If you're a teacher, have you run across anyone like this and were they able to "get it" eventually? .....
I'm a teacher and I've come across many students like this. Yes, they eventually get it after a lot of work and perseverance.

I've been told many times that I'm a patient teacher.
 

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Hmmmmmm!

My 2 cents.

Some people have just got the feel for some things.

I suppose most people can be taught things but if they havn't got a feel for the things in the first place then they are going to mostly be restricted to following someone and checking themselves all the time to try to be right and continually correcting themselves and it is a forced thing whereas the person with a feel for something doesn't need to check or correct or force much at all so it is just more natural.

Not everyone can drive at Formula One level even though they can be taught to drive the car and how to negotiate corners etc because the drivers at Formula One level have a natural feel for it and it's also highly competitive and even drivers with natural feel for Formula One level will not always be able to get into a team but drivers with no or little feel for Formula One level will not be able to learn their way into a team at all.
 

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Have you ever watched "Mr, Hollands Opus"?
If not, you should. :)
 

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Yes, given that a student has most of his/her faculties intact, and that student will work.
 

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Improvising, rhythm etc can be taught to a certain extent and then it can't be taught.
Depends what level we are talking about.

Teachers who make a living out of teaching to anybody, obviously have to try with all students, but some students are going to be more natural than others and not just for music, for anything.
 

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Improvising, rhythm etc can be taught to a certain extent and then it can't be taught.
Depends what level we are talking about.

Teachers who make a living out of teaching to anybody, obviously have to try with all students, but some students are going to be more natural than others and not just for music, for anything.
We call the ones that play at a high level 'masters'. Not everyone is going to be a master. Still, any aspect of music can be taught.
 

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I'm not sure it can be taught. But it certainly can be learned.
 

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If "Snowball" can learn rhythm, nearly anyone can.

This video really depressed me because that bird has better rhythm than me.... I'm going to go practice rhythm.....a lot...
 

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We call the ones that play at a high level 'masters'. Not everyone is going to be a master. Still, any aspect of music can be taught.
Depends on your definition of master and I think everyone can become a great musician with a lot of practice.

I could barely tap my feet to a rhythm a few years ago and no I can play highly syncopated pieces of music. I spend some time practicing it and I improved quite fast. You can't expect people to have good rhythm if they've never done anything with it before.
 

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Dance lessons help.
 

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.....If you're a teacher, have you run across anyone like this and were they able to "get it" eventually? .....
I'm a teacher and I've come across many students like this. Yes, they eventually get it after a lot of work and perseverance.

I've been told many times that I'm a patient teacher.
I was like that and yes, it does get better with a lot of practice but there is always the occasional quirk that creeps back now and then. Patience is the key. I'm dyscalculic (diagnosed) and despite that I can be very functionnal, it explains some of those difficulties. I've had more than my fare share of band mates completely baffled at my inability and getting excruciatingly annoyed at trying to explain things to me.

In my experience, the more people try explaining the worst it gets. That's because despite their good intentions, what a lot of people don't understand is that people like me are experienced at finding ways to work around our brain barriers. When I'm given enough time to work things on my own, I will always knock everyone's socks off :bluewink: - But I can't concentrate when people are talking all the time.
 

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A lot of people that have problems with rhythm and timing benefit a lot by learning (or being taught) bodypercussion and to clap simple rhythms in the beginning (and i mean simple, only quarters, halfs and their rests) in time to the metronome without any instrument . And then proceed to also stomp the feet with the metronome in time and additional eight's in regard of clapping.
A good beginning is e.g. to set the metronome at a comfortable speed and learn to walk (on the very spot or through the room if possible) in time with the metronome and later to walk (or clap) the "and" (1 and two and three and four and) between the beats (sounds and feels a little bit like ping pong with the metronome).
All of my students with problems in regard of rhythm and timing who practised this and some other exersices also at home got over their problems, only the ones that did not practise at home failed or needed much longer.
Getting rhythm and time is not that difficult but it is a question of the right exercises and and the time you invest into it.
 

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I'm not sure it can be taught. But it certainly can be learned.
Ah, well it can be taught in that teaching should show people how to learn.

I had a very poor sense of rhythm (and almost tone deaf), I have done a lot of work to get to where I can consider myself quite good. Not great, just quite good. Learning to dance is a great way to learn a feel for rhythm as is just lot's of practising and playing with good rhythm sections.
 

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I think in the Paul Desmond Charlie Parker interview, Paul Desmond says that Charlies father was a dancer and that's where he got his rhythm from and Charlie just laughed and said probably so, or something like that.

It's really hard to talk about rhythm and other things and experiences vary from person to person.

One of the first things to go when I don't practice is my rhythm, because my technique and coordination tends to go, it also happens a bit when I don't feel like playing but do play.
I still feel how the rhythmic flow should go according to me, but I just can't execute it properly due to lack of practice.

What if a person has no sense of how the rhythmic flow should go in the first place, can this person be taught rhythmic feel and how much can they be taught or are they always going to have a limited rhythmic feel but just get better at some parts of rhythm technique and coordination with practice but still have a stilted rhythmic feel.

Can someone be taught rhythm like Charlie Parkers rhythmic feel for example, well I say no but they can be taught to have better rhythm overall somewhat but there are limits.

I know that I can't play with Charlie Parkers rhythmic feel but I do have some of it in my playing I suppose but it's not exactly Charlies and it really shouldn't be exactly Charlies, it should be my rhythmic feel with some inspiration from Charlie maybe, and not some learnt copy that is never going to be Charlie Parkers rhythmic feel.

All of the great players have very individualistic senses of rhythm as far as I'm concerned and it's one of the main things that are part of their individualistic style.

Coltranes rhythmic feel is different to Parkers rhythmic feel etc etc.

In that Coltrane clip when he was 19 playing Koko, Coltrane has not got Parkers rhythmic feel, it's still a pretty good rhythmic feel but it's not Charlie Parkers rhythmic feel.

Swing rhythmic feel, rhythmic note grouping of phrases etc etc can have a lot of variations from player to player especially when applied to hundreds of notes in a solo and then there are the dynamics of the phrases and the note selection of the phrases and how all the phrases flow into each other, all mixed in with the rhythmic feel for the musical flow that the player feels is appropriate at a particular time and it all has multidimensional elements that depend on the particular player.
 

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I think in the Paul Desmond Charlie Parker interview, Paul Desmond says that Charlies father was a dancer and that's where he got his rhythm from and Charlie just laughed and said probably so, or something like that.

It's really hard to talk about rhythm and other things and experiences vary from person to person.

One of the first things to go when I don't practice is my rhythm, because my technique and coordination tends to go, it also happens a bit when I don't feel like playing but do play.
I still feel how the rhythmic flow should go according to me, but I just can't execute it properly due to lack of practice.

What if a person has no sense of how the rhythmic flow should go in the first place, can this person be taught rhythmic feel and how much can they be taught or are they always going to have a limited rhythmic feel but just get better at some parts of rhythm technique and coordination with practice but still have a stilted rhythmic feel.

Can someone be taught rhythm like Charlie Parkers rhythmic feel for example, well I say no but they can be taught to have better rhythm overall somewhat but there are limits.

I know that I can't play with Charlie Parkers rhythmic feel but I do have some of it in my playing I suppose but it's not exactly Charlies and it really shouldn't be exactly Charlies, it should be my rhythmic feel with some inspiration from Charlie maybe, and not some learnt copy that is never going to be Charlie Parkers rhythmic feel.

All of the great players have very individualistic senses of rhythm as far as I'm concerned and it's one of the main things that are part of their individualistic style.

Coltranes rhythmic feel is different to Parkers rhythmic feel etc etc.

In that Coltrane clip when he was 19 playing Koko, Coltrane has not got Parkers rhythmic feel, it's still a pretty good rhythmic feel but it's not Charlie Parkers rhythmic feel.

Swing rhythmic feel, rhythmic note grouping of phrases etc etc can have a lot of variations from player to player especially when applied to hundreds of notes in a solo and then there are the dynamics of the phrases and the note selection of the phrases and how all the phrases flow into each other, all mixed in with the rhythmic feel for the musical flow that the player feels is appropriate at a particular time and it all has multidimensional elements that depend on the particular player.
Maybe you should define what you exactly mean by rhythmic feel. Do you mean rhythmic repertoire or his swing feel? There are so many possibilities. Are you talking about the rhytmic figures he (Parker) is playing? I personally don't feel them to be that complex but very naturally flowing even when he is doing his staccato melodies. In regard of timing he was sometimes a little off when he was playing his 16th lines in a higher tempo. A lot of later players were much more complex and played rhythms much more diffcult using e.g. polyrhythms and more. Today many young players don't have a diversified repertoire regarding rhythms and are playing a lot of 8th note lines and not more (would be so easy to do some editing to have some variety). They should practise improvising working more only with 1 to 3 notes and to figure a lot of different ways to use them rhythmically.
 

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Almost all aspects of learning depend on the initiative and development of the student as well as the teacher. Rhythm can be taught but it is more difficult than other concepts like notes and key signatures. I usually work with my students in small groups of five at a time. Music and other aspects of the arts are not as simple when it comes down to teaching and learning. But can be the most rewarding. I feel truly blessed when I see kids play stuff that I had no clue of at their age with style and groove. Take care guys.

sent from Mikey's Super Inspire 4G
 
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