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Hi everyone,
I'm new to SOTW & to playing(wish I'd started 7 years ago when I 1st thought about it(in fact I wish I'd started when I was a kid)) anyway, I bought a good quality Elkhart which I believe is a Elkhart SXTD Deluxe Tenor Sax. Thing is I can't find any history about it other than it being sold from a shop in Mold, Wales and being distributed by Vincent Bach about 12 years ago. Serial number is 6082229, but that's all I can find.
HELP!!

Many thanks for any info you can provide.

Mike
 

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Have you had a look in http://saxpics.com/?v=info&p=stencil as a starting point?
I see Elkhart being made by both Beuscher and Conn at some point. A cursory glance through the Serial Number list(s) leads me to wonder if you have an extra digit in there... :dontknow:
 

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A pic would be mighty helpful too...or two or three.....

...the thing is, the Elkhart name got bought sometime ago...have no idea if this was 2 years ago or fifteen....and they are now just sorta crappy asian-produced horns....just to add to the general confusion.....
 

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That serial number, even removing a digit, and a Vintage Elkhart made by either Buescher or Conn are non-sequitors. You will find vintage Elkharts with 5-digit serial numbers, but I suspect this sax might be of Chinese, Taiwanese, or Japanese origin, not US -- particularly given that the OP thinks it was new 12 years ago.

Have a picture of it you can share?
 

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Hold the fort.....

The Elkhart SXTD is a modern line of saxophones marketed mostly in the UK. From the photos, they appear to be an Asian import. The "Elkhart" brand name probably now belongs to Conn/Selmer. I figure this is one of their imports for mostly European sales. I believe it has absolutely nothing to do with vintage Elkhart band instruments that were made by Buescher in the US.
 

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exactly those Elkharts have nothing to do with the Vintage Elkhart but are modern Taiwanese saxophones nothing wrong with that but that is as much as one can possibly say about that in terms of history , this is what Sax.co.uk has to say about them

" ....... Elkhart SXTD Deluxe Tenor Sax
Deluxe model with slightly larger bell for extra projection. For many decades the better quality student saxophones such as this Elkhart, have been made in Taiwan.
Supplied with hard case, strap & mouthpiece.
Free UK mainland delivery. RRP £1,070 inc.vat....."

 

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Yup...that's what I suspected from that serial #....Elkhart, Kohlert, etc....old reliable names which have been bought 'n sold like two bit ho's......

...am waiting for the shoe to drop on the likes of "Cleveland" and "Indiana".....

...just sad.
 

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Hey,

Conn/Selmer is still using the Aristocrat name on some of there student horns. There should be a law. :bluewink:
 

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Yup...that's what I suspected from that serial #....Elkhart, Kohlert, etc....old reliable names which have been bought 'n sold like two bit ho's......
Apparently a Chinese saxophone that is only sold here is called Dolnet. They are using a few different models with that name but one was the worst Chinese sax I've seen.
 

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the reality is that a brandname is not protected forever if the company to which that name belongs is out of business. Even if a brandname is still owned by someone and is not used by this company this name can be relatively easily and cheaply acquired and quite legally used.
 

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Frankly, I think this is borderline fraud-even if it is legal. Instead of trying to make a name for themselves, these Chinese manufactureres try to decieve people by using once proud names. Can you imagine in fifty years if Chinese car companies aquire the names Porche and Rolls Royce?? They may be good cars, but when you buy a Porche, you expect a Porche. That's the reason I have a hard time trusting Chinese horns branded under old names. It's like they are living off of some other companies past.
 

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the reality is that a brandname is not protected forever if the company to which that name belongs is out of business. Even if a brandname is still owned by someone and is not used by this company this name can be relatively easily and cheaply acquired and quite legally used.
Exactly the same cheapening of brands has been occurring in hifi too. Decent European brands like Telefunken and Luxman quite upmarket in the 70s are now cheap asian models with low quality parts. There's tons of them out there...
 

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you might be mistaken believing that this name (and other ones) was chosen by a Taiwanese or Chinese maker. Most of the saxophone makers in these countries are OEM (private label ) makers and don't even have a brandname of their own and produce items , mostly for western buyers, with a brandname that the seller requests them.

So you can go to one of these makers and ask for them to make you a saxophone by your name (as Phil Barone does) or someone else's name (as P.Mauriat did at the beginning of their career prior to own their own factory) or even a Brandname of your choice.

It will be your responsibility as the distributor off such horn to face the legal consequences if you use a name that is owned by someone else.

So, don't blame the makers, blame (if there is anything to blame) the people whom order these saxophones by using a name made to deceive. There is a guy in the States who buys and sells asian saxophones called " Selmer Artist Limited "....... After all Conn/Selmer (Selmer USA ) also sells asian made saxophones which have nothing to do with Selmer France and used that name for years creating the idea that the two companies were related.
 

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Hey,

Conn/Selmer is still using the Aristocrat name on some of there student horns. There should be a law. :bluewink:
I once test-played an Selmer Aristocrat which sounds and feels exactly the same as my then TW-imported Vif. There's a period I thought "Aristocrat" sucks.

....Most of the saxophone makers in these countries are OEM (private label ) makers and don't even have a brandname of their own and produce items , mostly for western buyers, with a brandname that the seller requests them......
yeah, I've seen a fair few brand names which really looked like they came from random keywords out of a jazz theory book. :yikes!:

....So, don't blame the makers, blame (if there is anything to blame) the people whom order these saxophones by using a name made to deceive. There is a guy in the States who buys and sells asian saxophones called " Selmer Artist Limited "....... After all Conn/Selmer (Selmer USA ) also sells asian made saxophones which have nothing to do with Selmer France and used that name for years creating the idea that the two companies were related.
+1, and I think it's Conn-Selmer who import TW-made saxophones and stamp "Conn" or "Buescher" to it.:tsk:
 

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Frankly, I think this is borderline fraud-even if it is legal. Instead of trying to make a name for themselves, these Chinese manufactureres try to decieve people by using once proud names. Can you imagine in fifty years if Chinese car companies aquire the names Porche and Rolls Royce?? They may be good cars, but when you buy a Porche, you expect a Porche. That's the reason I have a hard time trusting Chinese horns branded under old names. It's like they are living off of some other companies past.
Exactly.
When British Leyland cast their web in the 1970s they bought the rights to defunct manufacturers such as Riley, Wolseley & Vanden Plas.
Consequently they could tart up their own mediocre products & badge them with the name of these proud old manufacturers.
This is not fraud, but very dubious marketing.
Volkswagen have the rights to market as Bugatti....how I wish that they would leave the past where it belongs....no accounting for accountants however.
 

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not that the veyron isn't worth the Bugatti name
 

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A great car without doubt, but misty memories of Bugattis such as the glorious T35 & T37 live in the 1920s & 30s....it is almost necrophilia to revive the name; adding lipstick & a party frock to a revered old granny.
Yes, the Veyron wears the Bugatti badge, but it was not designed by Ettore Bugatti, so it can never, in the eyes of old pedants & enthusiasts such as I, be a "real" Bugatti....nor a replica, as it was not designed by the hand that made the original.
 

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well, modern Maserati, Alfa-Romeo, Ferrari have been never seen by the originators of the brand .......... and yet still have the magic!
 

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I should have been clearer....."The original hand", in the context of replica, covers both the original designer AND the company which employed him.
 

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Maestrocase on ebay sells a cheap asian horn called True-tone. I am surprsed teh Selmer execs haven't gotten it stopped.
thanks for the car references. Loved the Riley Pathfinder.
 
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