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Yes Phil...and a large majority of players...especially young ones believe a lound sound is a big sound.
I remember the first time I heard Stan Getz play at a decent sized, by jazz club standards, place called Fat Tuesdays when I lived in NY. He was as loud as anyone I've ever heard when he wanted to be.
With three electric guitar players, I'd get a Dukoff and point it in their face until they turned down.
 

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I remember the first time I heard Stan Getz play at a decent sized, by jazz club standards, place called Fat Tuesdays when I lived in NY. He was as loud as anyone I've ever heard when he wanted to be.
With three electric guitar players, I'd get a Dukoff and point it in their face until they turned down.
Did you live in Manhattan? I lived at 35th and third for ten years but as I got older the city got to me and expensive too! I saw Stan a few times and the sound filled the room. Low baffle, big chamber, small opening. I met him backstage after the show and asked him what kind of mouthpiece he used. I found a permit to go back there and stuck it in on my shirt and just walked past the guards and found Stan in a dressing room. He was very nice. I still have his autograph on a scrap of paper. I was just a kid. Phil
 

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Yesterday we had combo practice (besides the 2 tenor saxes, there are 3 electric guitars, one piano, one singer with microphone, one drummer and one Bass player). Our teacher said we had to play louder, I thought I was playing fairly loud already.....
Rather than trying to play loud enough when competing with 3 electric geeetars, piano (electric?) drummer (trap set) and electric bass, make life a little easier like we do in nightclubs, big bands and situations where a PA and mics are a must for the reed section. The 3 geeeetars alone are probably going to probably part your hair. Get a PA system or a 15" keyboard amp with 2 mic inputs for the 2 tenors or hook into the singers amp :)
 

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When you are ready I found a Selmer S 80 C* that came with a horn.
I tried it and it's way to closed for me.
You can have it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
When you are ready I found a Selmer S 80 C* that came with a horn.
I tried it and it's way to closed for me.
You can have it.
You're very nice.
But I already have one exactly the same. It was the mouthpiece that I had to buy when I started with my first music teacher.

I don't think I'll need to look for a louder mouthpiece. The answers from this forum (and from cafe-saxophone) combined with the feedback from my teachers convinced me that I will need to develop my projection a bit more (it's better than a year ago, but still needs some work). And my saxophone teacher told me yesterday that projection has nothing to do with the moutpiece, it starts at a mental level (try to fill up the whole venue, not just your small practice room) but it also has a physical aspect (hard to pinpoint it seems). He also said that you can have projection at a low volume (I think some others on both forums have said about the same), it's something different than "volume".

And as a general update:
The combo teacher clarified the whole thing when I saw him last week. It seems that what bothered him was the fact that sometimes (when we were somewhat unsure) we played rather quietly, at those times he couldn't hear any saxes. We just need to build up our confidence and let it shine I guess.
I also downloaded an app for measuring sound levels (Decibel X). Did some long notes from pp to FFF and back, at about 80 cm from the phone. The meter went up to about 95 - 100 dB (max. was 103 dB). Sound was not to bad at those high volumes.

And yesterday at combo practice I used the decibel-X app to get an idea of how loud the whole combo sounded. There was one guitarist absent, so only 2 guitars.
The general volume was arrond 85 dB, peeks of 93 dB.
We had no problem getting ourselves heard, also played a bit more confident.
 

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I also downloaded an app for measuring sound levels (Decibel X). Did some long notes from pp to FFF and back, at about 80 cm from the phone. The meter went up to about 95 - 100 dB (max. was 103 dB). Sound was not to bad at those high volumes.

And yesterday at combo practice I used the decibel-X app to get an idea of how loud the whole combo sounded. There was one guitarist absent, so only 2 guitars.
The general volume was arrond 85 dB, peeks of 93 dB.
We had no problem getting ourselves heard, also played a bit more confident.
You'll need to make comparative measurements at the same distance - sound pressure levels are dependent on distance.

Better yet, try recording a session to check the balance of the various instruments. See how that compares to your sense of balance while you are playing. In the moment, do you think you are playing loud relative to the other instruments? Sometimes we need to recalibrate our impressions of personal volume vs balance.

And yes, confidence in playing your part will go a long way to achieving a better sound.

P.S. When the time comes that you have a microphone, recall that the mic is there only to reinforce your sound - do NOT play softer. Always blow all the way through your horn. There is little worse than an amplified weak sound.
 

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You're very nice.
But I already have one exactly the same. It was the mouthpiece that I had to buy when I started with my first music teacher.

I don't think I'll need to look for a louder mouthpiece. The answers from this forum (and from cafe-saxophone) combined with the feedback from my teachers convinced me that I will need to develop my projection a bit more (it's better than a year ago, but still needs some work). And my saxophone teacher told me yesterday that projection has nothing to do with the moutpiece, it starts at a mental level (try to fill up the whole venue, not just your small practice room) but it also has a physical aspect (hard to pinpoint it seems). He also said that you can have projection at a low volume (I think some others on both forums have said about the same), it's something different than "volume".

And as a general update:
The combo teacher clarified the whole thing when I saw him last week. It seems that what bothered him was the fact that sometimes (when we were somewhat unsure) we played rather quietly, at those times he couldn't hear any saxes. We just need to build up our confidence and let it shine I guess.
I also downloaded an app for measuring sound levels (Decibel X). Did some long notes from pp to FFF and back, at about 80 cm from the phone. The meter went up to about 95 - 100 dB (max. was 103 dB). Sound was not to bad at those high volumes.

And yesterday at combo practice I used the decibel-X app to get an idea of how loud the whole combo sounded. There was one guitarist absent, so only 2 guitars.
The general volume was arrond 85 dB, peeks of 93 dB.
We had no problem getting ourselves heard, also played a bit more confident.
Cool
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Something that I wanted to share with you all:
Since this thread, I have bought a new mouthpiece (Otto Link - tone edge 7), my sax teacher retired and we got a new teacher.
Wednesday we were talking about this episode where I was wondering about how loud I could play, that I had an app installed to measure the volume that I could produce.
Our teacher was curious and wanted to check out the decibel rating we all produced.
I could get to about 107 - 108 dB (at a distance of about 60 - 70 cm).
My fellow student could only get to 103 dB (using his Selmer S80 or S90 C** I think). I told him to try his new mouthpiece (metal V16 - 5 or 6 I think). He did, and instantly got to 107 - 108 dB. So I guess a mouthpiece can make a difference.
Our teacher also got to 108 dB.
 

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Yes, but you are comparing a C* mouthpiece to a much larger opening.

In my experience one of the determining factors in volume is the opening and throat size of a mouthpiece. Of course measuring at exact distance is paramout here since, as you probably know, sound decreases very rapidly.

Few decibels are a very large difference, every 3Db sound doubles in volume.
 

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Something that I wanted to share with you all:
Since this thread, I have bought a new mouthpiece (Otto Link - tone edge 7), my sax teacher retired and we got a new teacher.
Wednesday we were talking about this episode where I was wondering about how loud I could play, that I had an app installed to measure the volume that I could produce.
Our teacher was curious and wanted to check out the decibel rating we all produced.
I could get to about 107 - 108 dB (at a distance of about 60 - 70 cm).
My fellow student could only get to 103 dB (using his Selmer S80 or S90 C** I think). I told him to try his new mouthpiece (metal V16 - 5 or 6 I think). He did, and instantly got to 107 - 108 dB. So I guess a mouthpiece can make a difference.
Our teacher also got to 108 dB.
Yes a mouthpiece can make a difference. But a decibel meter will measure sound pressure as opposed to (perceived) loudness. Often they are the same or similar but not necessarily,

see: Mouthpiece for a big loud sound
 

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I agree, if I get this right, a brighter mouthpiece (and the rest) will measure higher Db but not necessarily be “ louder"
 

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I agree, if I get this right, a brighter mouthpiece (and the rest) will measure higher Db but not necessarily be " louder"
Well, if brighter means more high frequencies then that may sound louder if they frequencies your ear is more sensitive to, and also cause more sound pressure so more decibels.

But if it sounds brighter due to fewer low frequencies it may still sound louder, in that it seems to cut across other instruments, but would actually have less sound pressure.

At least, that is my understanding.
 

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Yes, I meant that a mouthpiece may enhance the higher frequencies and therefore have an higher pressure measuring higher amounts of decibels.

This is a site with a lot of info

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm

But THIS, I find very important

"
Avoid using the psychoacoustical terms loudness perception and volume.
This subjective sound-sensation is not clearly measurable without ambiguity.
The term "loudness" or "volume" is a problem because it belongs to psycho-
acoustics and this personal feeling is not correct definable.
Loudness as a psychological correlate of physical strength (amplitude) is also
affected by parameters other than sound pressure, including frequency,
bandwidth, spectral composition, information content, time structure, and the
duration of exposure of the sound signal. The same sound will not create the
same loudness perception by all individuals (people)"
 

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But THIS, I find very important

"
Avoid using the psychoacoustical terms loudness perception and volume.
This subjective sound-sensation is not clearly measurable without ambiguity.
The term "loudness" or "volume" is a problem because it belongs to psycho-
acoustics and this personal feeling is not correct definable.
Loudness as a psychological correlate of physical strength (amplitude) is also
affected by parameters other than sound pressure, including frequency,
bandwidth, spectral composition, information content, time structure, and the
duration of exposure of the sound signal. The same sound will not create the
same loudness perception by all individuals (people)"
Yes, that is more or less the gist of what I said above and also on my article.

But a brighter mouthpiece will often be louder, and also have more decibels (sound pressure) if it enhances the higher frequencies, but can also have fewer decibels (less sound pressure) if it reduces lower frequencies. (which also achieves the perception of brightness)
 
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