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I've though of applying KIWI brand Camp-Dry to my pads to prevent them from sticking. It says it's a "non-silicone polymer that repels water, dirt and oil", and that it's suitable for all leather clothing. Has anyone tried this? The pads are older, probably on the downside, and they're starting to stick a bit, esp. G# and low C#.
 

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Re: Canp Dry as Pad Treatment

many people coat their pads with all sorts of things , Emilio Lyons famously paints them with some sort of lacquer. Experiment on palm keys and see what happens , if nothing adverse happens there proceed to the rest of the horn! :bluewink: good luck and report back!
 

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Re: Canp Dry as Pad Treatment

I have used Kiwi products to increase the water repellent properties of new pads, but not to treat pad sticking so I can't comment on how it works for that. Its use did not make the new pads sticky, if that helps.

For very sticky pads, I use 1000 grit wet or dry sandpaper cut into 1 1/2 strips with a bit of ultra fine teflon powder on the back. With the sandpaper side down the strip is pulled out from under the pad a few times with moderate pressure on the key. This cleans and polishes the top of the tonehole and at the same time puts a light coating of teflon in the pores of the pad. If the pad is dirty, you may want to clean it first with lighter fluid on a Q-Tip. If it still sticks after that process then the sandpaper technique is a good follow up short of replacing the pad entirely.
 

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I've though of applying KIWI brand Camp-Dry to my pads to prevent them from sticking. It says it's a "non-silicone polymer that repels water, dirt and oil", and that it's suitable for all leather clothing. Has anyone tried this? The pads are older, probably on the downside, and they're starting to stick a bit, esp. G# and low C#.
It seems that Camp-dry does contain silicone.

From http://www.kiwicampdry.com/products.html :

"...Now just because we’ve gone eco friendly and changed our look that doesn’t mean that we’ve changed our great original formula. KIWI Camp Dry still contains a silicone content which bonds to materials to create an extremely tough water barrier, ensuring the greatest water protection...."​

and:

"With our unique, quick drying, non-silicone, fluropolymer formula you can protect your outdoor things without having to worry about discoloring and breathability."​

Rather confusing to say the least!

Rightly or wrongly, to me, silicone screams "sticking pads".

For an alternative, see post 27 at recent thread http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showth...ling-on-back-side-of-pad-grad-audition!/page2
 

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Kiwi actually makes two products that come in aerosol sprays. The Camp Dry Heavy Duty Water Repellent which contains silicone and the Camp Dry Fabric Protector which does not. The product I have used is the Fabric Protector since it does not darken or discolor the pads when applied. The photo below shows the results. The 1 hour drying time listed on the can was sped up considerably with the use of a hot air gun on low setting.


 

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That's a great help. Thanks for the photo.
 

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3M's Scotchguard Fabric Protector produces very similar results, and my guess is that the formulation must be pretty similar.

Diversion trivia:

The origin of the name "Kiwi" has been intriguing me, seeing that is a flightless bird in my country (pictured on the can), yet the Camp Dry is a product of USA.

I have now found the expanation - a tribute to the founder's wife...

"In 1906, William Ramsay had developed an unusually fine boot polish to which he gave the name ‘KIWI’. The choice of the name KIWI as a trademark was a tribute to William’s wife who was a native of New Zealand, home of the KIWI bird and New Zealand's national emblem. During Ramsay's visit to New Zealand he had noticed the quaint, wingless birds with their crisp, glossy plumage. The kiwi bird design looked good on the small round tin, and the name was easy to see and attractive to look at."
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Conclusion after a few weeks of playing: makes the pads water-repellent, but does not stop them from sticking.
 

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I have found that using lighter fluid does not work for new sticking pads. I have used WD-40 in the past with great results, but some folks here says that is bad for the pad so now I am hesitant. So I dont know what to use. (Just like Lemon Pledge has worked great on the outside finish but some folks says THAT'S bad. )
 

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WD40 is , for the most part, made of solvents rather than oils and if you see that it works is because is dissolving whatever sticks on your pads and the little oils aid the non sticking process, I prefer using spray silicone which I spray on some blotting paper and then repeatedly close the offending key(s) on the blotting paper (after cleaning as much as possible the pad and the rim of the tonehole with some solvent: water, alcohol or lighter fluid)
 

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Posted this earlier in another thread but it applies just as well here.

"Best to be clear. If you want to recondition the leather, then Scotchguard, Teflon dust, and so on won't do that.

If your concern is merely sticking pads, then the Teflon dust works well but no more so than silicone based products. Despite Gordon's misgivings I don't believe they cause stickiness any more or less than any other product. You say your pads are old. I'd hazard a guess that overly deep pad seats are much of the problem. Any waterproofing application applied to the surface of the leather, as opposed to being worked into the leather, is going to be worn away where the pad contacts the tone hole anyway.

Lemon Oil, Old English Oil, Neatsfoot Oil, etc, applied to the pads will soften the leather. Unfortunately, anything so easily absorbed by the leather will often also be absorbed by the felt beneath it.

Surprisingly enough, Cork Grease, or better yet, Lanolin or Dubbin, applied to the leather very sparingly, and then worked into the leather, will not only nourish the leather, but provide more than sufficient water proofing for our purposes. The hassle is, spending the time working it into the leather. If worked into the leather, there's nourishment and suppleness and no stickiness. If not sufficiently worked in and polished, there's a stickiness problem.

Which brings me to my final bit of advice. Don't bother. Sax pads, like brake pads on your car, are a wear item designed to be replaced. I see too many saxes where the effort of trying to keep the thing playing longer before getting it serviced just ends up costing more in the long run. Sure you might get another 6 months out of your pads but it's false economy if a small easily fixed problem on the horn has six months to grow into a major drama. Take the horn in, get it serviced and get the pads replaced."
 

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I have found that using lighter fluid does not work for new sticking pads. I have used WD-40 in the past with great results, but some folks here says that is bad for the pad so now I am hesitant.
I've also found that lighter fluid won't help for some sticky pads, especially when the problem is the pads being inherently sticky. It will help very temporarily. IME with WD-40 for sticky pads is that it also helps temporarily.
It does two things:
1) Cleans dirt that makes the pad sticky.
2) Adds stuff to the pad that makes it temporarily less sticky but has the potential to make it more sticky later. Old/dried WD-40 becomes sticky (check the top of a used can, for example).

For pads that are inherently very sticky I haven't found a cleaner yet that is very effective, only very temporarily. Maybe it's somehow possible to really remove all the sticky coating but I think a lot of times that's not possible, maybe the entire thickness of the leather has it. I'm not sure. The only reasonably long lasting solutions I found are adding things to the pads to create a non-stick layer in some way. If anyone knows of a way to "clean" those types of pads from being sticky I'm intereted to know.
 

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Nitai, The only way I've ever found is to use a good leather polish and really work it in. This isn't really possible in our case unless you're making your own pads, in which case you can treat the leather prior to assembling the pad itself.

You can, as I said in an above post, work a small amount of lanolin/beeswax mix into the leather on ready made pads, but as I also said, "why bother?"
 

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That'd be the spray can of Ardrox 9PR50C Remover/Precleaner - I'm still using the can you gave me...

It's a Chemetall Product. (Chemetall Australasia Pty Ltd)

I love the guidance on the can:
R65: Harmful: May cause lung damage if swallowed.

If I swallowed a 300g spraycan, I'd be expecting so much more than just lung damage!

KennyD
 

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*Update: I've been testing the Kiwi Camp Dry product for the last couple of months. The main problem has been a sticky bis key on alto. Those seems to stick on all my altos and usually at the worst possible time (during a solo).

I used the "fabric" version because that is what the Kiwi company recommends for instrument pads. It has now been applied to the offending pad three times. This product works about the same as the teflon lubricant I was previously using. The pad stops sticking for a couple of weeks and then will start to stick again. So I had the same result as jbtsax above. Sadly, it does not solve the sticky pad problem although it may very well extend the life of pads.
 

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I've been using wax paper on all my horns for sticky pads, and have not had any stickiness since:bounce:...used it on my Keilwerth SX90r tenor, had a bad sticking low C# pad...Yamahahahahahaha:lol::lol::lol: Custom Z tenor, it had a bad bis and low C#, Mark VI tenor, new pads, but had a bad bis and low C# sticky pads, King super 20 alto, bis key and low C# sticky pads, I started using this wax paper months ago and haven't had one sticky pad yet!:Rant:
The bis key on my super 20 alto used to stick like crazy, yep, right before a solo, :)but now I have no problems with it at all. My Keilwerth tenor's low C# key used to stick badly as well, but no more with the wax paper. You buy it by the roll at the supermarket and it last's forever!:cheers:
 

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Wax paper is a great idea Joe. I'm gonna have to try that.
 

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Is the idea that the wax on the paper is hydrophobic keeping the water away from the pad?

Wouldn't that still get gummy over time?

Sent from my Moto X 2015 Pure Edition using Forum Runner
 

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The treatment that works for sticking pads is to clean them (mainly the seating ring - nothing else touches the tone ring) with drugstore rubbing alcohol - doesn't have to be the high alcohol content type. Use cotton swabs with the long wood sticks and just do the pads with it on the sax - no need to take it apart. Get the tone hole rims too. This does nothing for water repellency so if you want to put anything else on them wait for the pads to dry.

Why it works: the water and alcohol dissolve the sugary deposits that cause sticking. The alcohol also makes the pads dry quicker.

Take it to the next level: The alcohol may not remove the dark deposits in the seating ring. What I have found that does work is a general purpose spot remover in a spray can called 'Goo Gone', which is also basically the same thing as 'Goof Off'. Apply it with a cotton swab, concentrating on the dark deposits in the seating ring. Work on the tone hole rims with it too. Don't use it unless you can see a dark seating ring. if you don't have that, the alcohol will be enough.

I don't like using silicone on any part of a wind instrument, so I'm still looking for the magic water proofer. Using the alcohol will probably interfere with any waterproofing you have on the pads, so keep that in mind.

Do you know why Emilio put lacquer on pads? Because the American Selmers used to be lacquered completely assembled in Elkhart, so the pads got mostly lacquered too. Original Selmer pads seemed to last forever. I had my 1971 MK VI overhauled a few years ago and it had about half of it's original pads. However I didn't get the horn until 1998 so it must have been very lightly used before that. Anyway, I guess he thought his pad jobs would last longer if he lacquered the pads. This would have no effect on sticking except possibly make it worse under humid conditions.
 
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