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my backyard looks like a construction site right now, I 've decided to build a new shed so I can gain some space in my house. ( my kids are welcoming my decision)
I started with a concrete floor which is sort of drying now so the shed can be built up on it next week. the outer walls will be wood, the roof is goint to be asphalt ( like on a road) inside the wooden shed I will place an islolated cabin which is in one of my rooms now. There will be some space between the walls of the cabin and the outer shed. Any thoughts of materials to use to further isolate noise to put between these walls are welcome. So are other general construction tips.
I have little experience with building but luckilly a friend does, he's gonna help me out.
I had to cut down a tree to make space for the shed; I noticed swinging a heavy axe 200 times takes other muscles then to gently press sax keys ( ouch :(
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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you need to paint the concrete with some kind of sealer that blocks water and mold. Use pressure treated wood for the floor and floor frame and paint them with some kind of water proof sealer as well. during heavy rains you can have moisture work its way up through the cement and it will rot the floor. Treating the cement with the sealer will prevent this. You should also lay a strip of caulk under perimeter of the floor and then lay the frame on top of it. Do this along with anchoring the frame to the cement using some bolts and you will have a sturdy, bug proof and water proof floor frame.
 

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I works great, Pete. I had some I covered a door with in a small home studio & it blocked exceptionally well.

I read about a studio featured in TapeOp that used this in the construction & had to try it for myself.
yeah that stuff looks way better to work with. I hate working with traditional insulation. You get fiber glass splinters everywhere. You have to take cold showers so the splinters don't work there way deeper into you skin.
 

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yeah that stuff looks way better to work with. I hate working with traditional insulation. You get fiber glass splinters everywhere. You have to take cold showers so the splinters don't work there way deeper into you skin.
Plus, the sound deadening characteristics of the yellow/pink stuff is nowhere near as good as its denim counterpart.
 

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However you decide to build this I have a few suggestions,

1. Be aware of how mold grows and be sure to address that in the construction, ie: if you use a batting type insulation
a vapor barrier must be put into place.

2. A flat asphalt roof must be properly supported in order to deal with the weight from snow, where as a pitched
roof does not need as much support.

Have fun and I hope you love it, wish I was over there would love to help. Jay.
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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yeah that stuff looks way better to work with. I hate working with traditional insulation. You get fiber glass splinters everywhere. You have to take cold showers so the splinters don't work there way deeper into you skin.
Plus, the sound deadening characteristics of the yellow/pink stuff is nowhere near as good as its denim counterpart.
Exactly.

Rockwool is basically just heat insulation, it does bugger all for sound which is why I recommended plasterboard. This denim stuff says it's 30% better than traditional insulation at sound insulation, so worth checking out, especially as it's recycled so good for the environment.
 

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Exactly.

Rockwool is basically just heat insulation, it does bugger all for sound which is why I recommended plasterboard. This denim stuff says it's 30% better than traditional insulation at sound insulation, so worth checking out, especially as it's recycled so good for the environment.
Not so sure if 30% better than 'bugger all' is all that great either
 

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Not so sure if 30% better than 'bugger all' is all that great either
The denim insulation works at least 30% better and it is quite a noticeable difference, especially when talking studio construction.

Of course, true sound blocking only happens with "rooms within rooms" or by using "floating" methods of room construction. In the OP's case, he does have a room within a room. So, 30% is a significant number b/c every decibel of reduction counts.

As I have previously stated, I have experience using the stuff. I am not just going by what I read.
 

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If you're going for the cheapest option, I'd go for traditional insulation. It does a reasonable job at stopping sound, to the point where really stuffing it into standard walls in the last place I helped build made it so I could practice without waking anyone in the room next door. That, and it's pretty hard to burn the stuff, too. Anything dense will do a great job, so all of these suggestions are solid. I'd just make sure whatever you use is flame-resistant as a first priority. Better to be able to hear the sax player a bit then to not hear him because he's been lit aflame, as far as I see it.
 

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Wow...a timely discussion as I have just embarked on this quest myself! My situation is different as I am building indoors and have no need for load-bearing walls, but as far as soundproofing goes I have found several options. The simplest as you have mentioned is a standard 2x4 frame with insulation sandwiched between drywall (gypsum sheetrock), medium density fiberboard (MDF, particle board) and/or OSB (oriented strand board), in any combination to suit your weatherproofing needs (using tyvek or other housewrap, vinyl/aluminum siding, etc). This will give you minimal soundproofing for the lowest cost, which many of us have experienced hearing the neighbors in a thin-walled hotel or cheap apartment.

Now for the good stuff. If you want to vastly improve your soundproofing without any fancy construction techniques ("resilient channel" floating wall or completely decoupled double wall) then the best options are to add extra layers of different mass materials, such as inner layer of drywall, and outer layer of MDF+drywall or MDF+OSB. The key to getting maximal soundproofing is to use a dampening material between layers, eg. mass-loaded vinyl rubber (such as Audimute's Peacemaker), commercial "quietrock" drywall impregnated with a magic substance, or a viscoelastic compound... the two I've researched are Green Glue and QuietGlue Pro, both of which are applied between board layers on either side or both sides of your wall. Apparently for cost considerations this glue sandwich seems to have the highest ratings of dampening. Here's a breakdown of various combinations and the STC (sound transmission coefficient, or transmission loss) of each:

http://www.greengluecompany.com/greenGlue-vs-ExtraDrywall.php
http://www.greengluecompany.com/greenGlue-vs-MLV.php
http://www.greengluecompany.com/greenGlue-vs-Soundboard.php
http://www.greengluecompany.com/greenGlue-vs-ResilientChannel.php

There is a TON of useful technical information on their site- I don't endorse them in any sense but I gotta say whoever presents the most convincing information wins my dollar.

So, in my case I am planning to build a design similar to the DAWBOX.com plans you may have seen, 4x4x7', some careful sleuthing helped me reverse engineer their plans, haha.
http://joannapearl.blogspot.com/2010/10/recording-booth.html
http://blogs.voices.com/voxdaily/2007/07/bobbin_beam_do_it_yourself_ho.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/luvhiphop/5277537211/in/photostream/
http://www.voiceoverxtra.com/article.htm?id=nixi53q5
http://www.canastero.com/vocalbooth.html

I don't mean to undercut their business as they have worked out all dimensions and parts, but if you put your mind to it you can figure it out, I'm still working on my final touches. Their design which costs $50 for the plans and a DVD guide, only uses one layer of wood/MDF/OSB coated on the inside with foam, so I'm told it only has about 35-40 STC rating, and they say they have sold to many sax players. This would be good enough to use in an apartment or even for your outdoor shed but probably not after 10pm, haha. If you use any of the dampening methods above you can get to 55+ (remember dB is a log scale, so 3dB is double the sound energy, so this is a huge difference), which in addition to apartment walls would be virtually inaudible to your neighbors while you play at full bore. I'm planning to start off with 2x4 frame and 2 outer layers of 5/8" drywall with quietglue pro, and if that's not enough, I can throw in the 3.5" fiberglass insulation and another layer of drywall, but I don't think I'll need that much as my existing walls are pretty quiet, though I want to play all night so I guess we'll see how my setup turns out. I'd be happy to share my breakthroughs and disappointments as I go along, and post a final sound/video clip of the end product. If anyone else has any pointers or if I missed anything feel free to chime in.

One last issue, many people have burnt hundreds (or thousands) lining their studio with 1-2" sound foam (Auralex or similar), which is unfortunate. This does hardly anything to soundproof your enclosure (I've tried), you MUST use one of the techniques above. The foam does work amazingly well for "sound treatment" inside a studio, absorbing reflections to make the room sound more "musical" and removing any unwanted resonant frequencies, but this is only useful inside the room, not outside.

Now folks... you are ready to embark on your quest to build a better sax box!!! If anyone can put up some CAD drawings of their design that would be sweet...

cheers and happy practicing,

-swansong

PS. I keep editing the post with things that pop in my head... Soundproofing absolutely depends on blocking air movement, so be sure to seal all seams and use weather stripping on the door. Unfortunately, it's no fun to play in an airtight room, you'll only last about 10 minutes without getting sweaty or lightheaded. FYI in Joanna Pearl's blog link above you can see in the second to last post the soundproof ventilation box which uses 6" insulated duct zigzagged in an enclosure, driven by 2x 120mm computer fans for intake and outflow. Supposedly this works really well, and will keep you comfortable during a long practice session.
 

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Build with no gaps. Lay a bead of elastic caulk and set the drywall on it. If you can, build two walls and pour sand to fill the dead space. Don't make it square. Pitch the roof towards the mix station of the room. Use solid core doors. Aim for at least 2200 cubic feet of space. The why's would take longer than I have right now to explain, but do it anyway if you can... It's all "sound" advice.
 

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The denim insulation works at least 30% better and it is quite a noticeable difference, especially when talking studio construction.
Interesting, thanks for sharing this tidbit as I was wondering this also. I would much prefer to use this GREEN denim material and it's a wonderful sounding product from everything I've read. Other than it being vastly more expensive (damn!) I only see it available locally in 2" thickness, 6 16x48x2" sheets for $36. That would total out to about $140 to do the 4x4x7 box I am making, compared to fiberglass 3.5" which would be around $30 total.

Did you use the 2" thickness in your project or was it available any thicker, and did you find it to be reasonably priced for the amount you needed?
 

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Interesting, thanks for sharing this tidbit as I was wondering this also. I would much prefer to use this GREEN denim material and it's a wonderful sounding product from everything I've read. Other than it being vastly more expensive (damn!) I only see it available locally in 2" thickness, 6 16x48x2" sheets for $36. That would total out to about $140 to do the 4x4x7 box I am making, compared to fiberglass 3.5" which would be around $30 total.
I did use the 2" & yeah, it is a bit pricey, but worth it. It comes in other thickness but you would have to contact the company for dealers.

UltraTouch Brochure
 

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never mind about the 3dB thing, I'm mistaken. Every 10dB is half the volume.

STC What can be heard
25 Normal speech can be understood quite easily and distinctly through wall
30 Loud speech can be understood fairly well, normal speech heard but not understood
35 Loud speech audible but not intelligible
40 Onset of "privacy"
42 Loud speech audible as a murmur
45 Loud speech not audible; 90% of statistical population not annoyed
50 Very loud sounds such as musical instruments or a stereo can be faintly heard; 99% of population not annoyed.
60+ Superior soundproofing; most sounds inaudible

STC Partition type
33 Single layer of 1/2" drywall on each side, wood studs, no insulation (typical interior wall)
45 Double layer of 1/2" drywall on each side, wood studs, batt insulation in wall
46 Single layer of 1/2" drywall, glued to 6" lightweight concrete block wall, painted both sides
54 Single layer of 1/2" drywall, glued to 8" dense concrete block wall, painted both sides
55 Double layer of 1/2" drywall on each side, on staggered wood stud wall, batt insulation in wall
59 Double layer of 1/2" drywall on each side, on wood stud wall, resilient channels on one side, batt insulation
63 Double layer of 1/2" drywall on each side, on double wood/metal stud walls (spaced 1" apart), double batt insulation
72 8" concrete block wall, painted, with 1/2" drywall on independent steel stud walls, each side, insulation in cavities
 

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just speaking with my architect hat on but like Fader said the most important thing is to avoid gaps- the best specified partition in the world is useless if there is a few mm of a gap here and there. Also I presume you have checked in terms of any statutory approvals you might need.
 
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