Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,319 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just saw this one at a friend's place - it's a former bar decoration and now private home wall hanger but the stencil caught my attention and I compared it to one of my TT altos. The big difference is the body octave link. Just thought I post a picture or two:

View attachment 248398

View attachment 248400

The silver one is the 1925, the "dark" is the 1920 (SN 69xxx)
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
Well that seems to have simplified things.

That stencil might actually be a 1925 horn, made with leftover parts from earlier models. I don’t think the stencil serial #s correspond with the “official” list.

Incidentally, anybody know when the automatic octave was introduced, and who did it? I”m guessing some French maker in the 1890s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,319 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Well that seems to have simplified things.

That stencil might actually be a 1925 horn, made with leftover parts from earlier models. I don’t think the stencil serial #s correspond with the “official” list.

Incidentally, anybody know when the automatic octave was introduced, and who did it? I”m guessing some French maker in the 1890s.
I wouldn't be able to tell.

-What I saw was that the cups - with the exception of one, had not pegs and it did not look like they were removed from the others (the pads had just fallen out).
-The upper stack geometry is very different (post placement, tone holes)

I may be able to borrow it again but the owner is in his late 80s and pretty fragile now so I don't want to bother him too much. If you have any specific pointers, let me know what to look for and I'll see what I can do. BTW, it was apparently silver plated but the silver is almost completely gone.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
I wouldn't be able to tell.

-What I saw was that the cups - with the exception of one, had not pegs and it did not look like they were removed from the others (the pads had just fallen out).
-The upper stack geometry is very different (post placement, tone holes)

I may be able to borrow it again but the owner is in his late 80s and pretty fragile now so I don't want to bother him too much. If you have any specific pointers, let me know what to look for and I'll see what I can do. BTW, it was apparently silver plated but the silver is almost completely gone.
I don’t have any specific pointers, except general similarities in how the keys are made & put together, shape of the bow guard etc that identify a horn as a Buescher stencil. But that doesn’t tell you when it was made. I’m not aware of anything accurate and consistent except the general look & feel of the horn, but a few years later than the what was in the pro line. If it looks like a late ‘20s True Tone horn, it’s probably an early ‘30s stencil, etc. However, stencil horns might be made with whatever was handy, so it’s possible to see horns that share features associated with more than one period.

The stencils didn’t have snaps, that was a premium feature exclusive to the main line. They never have Norton springs, for the same reason.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,319 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I don’t have any specific pointers, except general similarities in how the keys are made & put together, shape of the bow guard etc that identify a horn as a Buescher stencil. But that doesn’t tell you when it was made. I’m not aware of anything accurate and consistent except the general look & feel of the horn, but a few years later than the what was in the pro line. If it looks like a late ‘20s True Tone horn, it’s probably an early ‘30s stencil, etc. However, stencil horns might be made with whatever was handy, so it’s possible to see horns that share features associated with more than one period.

The stencils didn’t have snaps, that was a premium feature exclusive to the main line. They never have Norton springs, for the same reason.
I see your point but here is an interesting post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Saxophonic...ormation_about_an_old_alto_saxophone_of_1920/ The horn pictured appears to be identical to the one shown and was manufactured in late 1920 - according to the engraving mentioned in the description. So, 1920 appears to be close at least. Also, it does not have the pearl inlays, plain vanilla brass keys.

https://imgur.com/a/lpz6n

Edit (again):
Actually, I am looking at this again and the one on imgur appears an intermediate step between the two of the original post.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
So I happened to get one of these in the mail today. Harwood's a pretty common Buescher stencil! This one's a derelict beater I nabbed on eBay to use for soldering practice.

Definitely a Buescher horn & it has the same octave mech as yours, but a pearl thumbrest, and the serial's 109823.



It has pearls for the stack keys, too.



It's been buffed hard. Can't tell if it was ever silver-plated. Don't see any stippling on the posts, which is a usual tell-tale for a formerly plated horn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,319 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
So I happened to get one of these in the mail today. Harwood's a pretty common Buescher stencil! This one's a derelict beater I nabbed on eBay to use for soldering practice.

Definitely a Buescher horn & it has the same octave mech as yours, but a pearl thumbrest, and the serial's 109823.



It has pearls for the stack keys, too.



It's been buffed hard. Can't tell if it was ever silver-plated. Don't see any stippling on the posts, which is a usual tell-tale for a formerly plated horn.
Nice find! The one I looked at was 69... forgot the last 3 digits. I read up a bit on Jenkins, the Harwood line of instruments was supposedly the top of the line. Also, the G trill key, which is "curvy" on my TTs, is straight and makes a sharp bend right at the pivot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,319 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
BTW, do you also have the neck? I may eventually end up with that horn but the octave key is broken off below the pivot, and you also saw how bent the lever pin is, so before you throw them out (in case you are really just using this horn for solder practice) keep me in mind.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
BTW, do you also have the neck? I may eventually end up with that horn but the octave key is broken off below the pivot, and you also saw how bent the lever pin is, so before you throw them out (in case you are really just using this horn for solder practice) keep me in mind.
No neck, but you’re welcome to the octave mech. I do intend to use it for practice so it’s going to get taken to pieces.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
1,813 Posts
Just for kicks here's that Harwood's body with a late '20s TT alto body. The posts differ where the keywork differs, but except for the octave pips, the tone holes appear to be placed identically & the same diameter. The only obvious difference is that many of the tone hole chimneys on the Harwood are noticeably shorter than on the TT. I guess they could have been filed down to level them at some point, but seems like it would have to be a lot of filing.

 

·
Seeker Of A Clever Title.
Joined
·
3,739 Posts
Along with the octave mechanism, the taper of the neck and the diameter of the neck tenon changed throughout the TT run, with the trend being a larger bore at the tenon and a louder horn. I suspect the body didn't change that much but don't have any tools to measure.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top