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Buescher New Aristocrat?

13364 Views 22 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  ONE MORE MOUTHPIECE, 
J
I am in the middle of a deal for a Buescher New Aristocrat. I heard that the Truetones were great for Classical. Is that the same for the New Aristocrats? What else can you tell me about them? I used the search button, but did not come up with much. Any other information would be helpful.

Thanks
~Carbs
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hakukani
From the SOTW wayback:

Gayle Fredenburgh
07-10-2003, 10:29 AM

Sigurd Rascher played on a gold plated Buescher New Aristocrat model alto in the serial number series 267,xxx.

I believe Rascher played a bit of classical sax.;)
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J
Thanks hakukani.
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C
Carbs said:
I am in the middle of a deal for a Buescher New Aristocrat. I heard that the Truetones were great for Classical. Is that the same for the New Aristocrats? What else can you tell me about them? I used the search button, but did not come up with much. Any other information would be helpful.

Thanks
~Carbs
Click to expand...
The sweetest-sounding Buescher I ever played was a NA alto. It's like an Aristocrat but even sweeter, with a smaller bore (more resistance.)
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Roger Aldridge
Carbs,

My '34 NA tenor has a 2676xx serial number and has a quality of tone that gives me goosebumps every time I pick up the horn. I've played on a lot of horns over the years and, without question, the NA is the horn of my dreams.

I'd describe the New Aristocrat as having multiple personalities. It's sound is absolutely gorgeous in a classical setting. I describe it as dark and ringing. Depending upon the mouthpiece used and the skill of the player, a NA tenor can have a glowing, rich, cello-like quality of sound. On the other hand, it has plenty of power and it more than holds its ground in a big band. In fact, the NA has such a strong sound in the low range that it can take on bari players. A NA has no problem cutting loose in a blues band. Yes, the NA is a GREAT classical saxophone but its a huge mistake if one thinks that a NA is just a classical horn.

I hope your deal for the NA works out. Please let us more about the horn.

Roger
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J
Thanks, that is what I wanted to know. I need to tell my parents, I may be picking up a new horn. They wont be happy. :( Don't know why. I will let you know how it works out. I am bringing along my 3 best Alto Mouthpeices. A Classical mouthpiece, a lead mouthpeice, and a Jazz mouthpiece.
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P
I would expect the large chamber mouthpieces to be the most effective, but would be interested in hearing about your expereience once you have had a blow.
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J
The Buescher NA,
Was a nice horn. Had a nice appearence Goldbrushed, nice horn. I played on it using my three mouthpieces, and they all seemed to respond pretty well to the horn. I though the action was kinda stiff. The tone was also kinda harsh, though it was probably me. I found it diffucult to reach the low register, and being unused to the Buescher fingering table it is easy to understand. I would like to thank the owner of the horn for the opprunity to play his horn, and I am sorry that I did not purchase it. It was a fine horn.

~Carbs
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B
Brushed gold? Was it a gold plate? I have found that Bueschers before the big B need to be in good adjustment to respond in the lower region. Maybe it needed a little attention.
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Bootman
Carbs, is it still available?
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JL
bruce bailey said:
Brushed gold? Was it a gold plate? I have found that Bueschers before the big B need to be in good adjustment to respond in the lower region. Maybe it needed a little attention.
Click to expand...
Not just Bueschers. Any horn needs to be in good adjustment and leak-free. My MKVI tenor at one point was one of the worst horns on the planet. Coltrane wouldn't have been able to play it! After an overhaul, it was a totally different horn.
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J
No it was a relacquered. It looked pretty cool, I was just questioning myself to much. I know I could have gotton used to the unusual Buescher pinky table. But, I would have needed to have my tech. check it out before I layed any money on the table. And I couldn't have gotton it to her before monday, with several people interested in the horn. I did not feel it was right to make the owner wait for me to have it checked out. By my tech.
Alas, it is to late now.
The person who decided to buy it is indeed a lucky person.
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Roger Aldridge
Personally, I stay away from relacqured horns. Whenever I've tried one its sound didn't seem quite right to me. Also, it would have been helpful to know if this NA retained the snap-in pads or not. Some repair techs don't like to work with Buescher snap-in pads that they replace them with Selmer-style pads. Big mistake! It will alter the sound of the horn. My NA tenor is nothing special to look at. It's original finish is around 85%. But, it's sound is glorious. As Dr. G says, 'Go for the sound'.

Good luck on finding a horn you like. Since the horn was a relacqure and heaven knows what else had been done to it, it may have been for the best that you walked away from it.

I'd suggest that you check out the vintage horns at www.junkdude.com. He sometimes has New Aristocrats for a reasonable price. Dave Hoskins (Junk Dude) is a straight-up guy and will give you an honest description of a horn. I've purchased several horns from Dave. I can highly recommend him to others. Also, check out vintagesax.com. Beautiful horns! Probably more expensive than Junk Dude, but they are in fantastic condition. Gail is a Buescher expert.

Roger
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M
the problem with relacquers is not the relacquer but usually the work done to prep it for lacquering. i have owned and repaired some great playing relacquered horns. as long as the metal isn't over buffed and the toneholes are level the lacquer should have no noticable effect on the instrument.

the only thing i find consistantly true about relacquered horns is that they can usually save you a great deal of money and there is a tremendous amount of misinformation spoken regarding them.
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Roger Aldridge
Mike,

The New Aristocrat has what I often describe as a "ringing" quality of sound. I do not hear this quality in either later model True Tones or early Aristocrats. I have yet to understand exactly WHY the New Aristocrat has this special sound. Other New Aristocrat players have told me that they, too, hear this quality. Personally speaking, I would never consider giving my NA tenor a relacquer simply for a cosmetic make over. I would worry about its sound being affected...especially, since I don't understand how a New Aristocrat sounds like it does. Over the years I've found that sometimes a small thing can make a big difference.

Never the less, I know that it's possible for one to find a good relacquered or replated horn. Your experiences underscore the importance of trying out horns before buying. Finding a good one and at a lower price is like hitting the ball over the fence. Absolutely great when it happens.

Roger
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M
wan't trying to sling mud just thought it was worth mentioning.

i personally would also not relacquer a horn, and again, i have seen relacquered horns i that i would very definitely avoid.

my point was just that every horn needs to be taken on a case by case basis and that its possibel to find a great playing relacquer and that its damage to the mechanism (thin metal, warped toneholes) , and not the actual new lacquer that makes horns play poorly.
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Roger Aldridge
One thing I've been curious about is whether the lacquer(s) that Buescher used contribues to some of the special Buescher tonal qualities. I realize that this may open the "material makes a difference versus material doesn't matter" can of worms. Never the less, I cannot help but wonder if there was something special about Buescher lacquer that might be different in some ways with a modern relacquer. I'm a curious type...can't help it.

Never the less, I agree with everything you're saying. Definitely case-by-case!
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saintsday
Roger Aldridge said:
One thing I've been curious about is whether the lacquer(s) that Buescher used contribues to some of the special Buescher tonal qualities. I realize that this may open the "material makes a difference versus material doesn't matter" can of worms. Never the less, I cannot help but wonder if there was something special about Buescher lacquer that might be different in some ways with a modern relacquer. I'm a curious type...can't help it.

Never the less, I agree with everything you're saying. Definitely case-by-case!
Click to expand...
I understand that kind of curiousity and also the case-by-case.
After I ship one off tonight, I'll have 3 NA altos. 2 are near perfect silver with fresh overhauls and one of those two has an outstanding set up. Yet the one that really made me fall in love with these things is an old relac with a visible dip in one of the toneholes.
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JL
Roger Aldridge said:
One thing I've been curious about is whether the lacquer(s) that Buescher used contribues to some of the special Buescher tonal qualities. I realize that this may open the "material makes a difference versus material doesn't matter" can of worms. Never the less, I cannot help but wonder if there was something special about Buescher lacquer that might be different in some ways with a modern relacquer. I'm a curious type...can't help it.
Click to expand...
At the risk of opening this can o' worms, I doubt, but certainly cannot prove, that the lacquer has anything to do with the ringing sound you describe. I'm pretty sure I know exactly what you mean about this special tonal quality. Both of my Aristocrat tenors have it (a series one and a 156). Both are silver plated. The earlier model is original plate, and the 156 is re-plated. The 156 has that ringing quality in spades. After playing it for nearly 5 years (in rotation with my MK VI) I still am amazed at the sound. I think it is something other than plating or lacquer, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.
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D
I know what it is ! its quality built instrument and well set up.
Dave
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