[kingsaxello]

I have observed that True-Tone and Aristocrat baritones had a "wire"-style key guard for the low B natural, which makes sense seeing as the key is on the left side of the instrument. However, I have never seen a Big B baritone with key guards, nor do I believe they ever had them.

My question is simply: Why is this so? I really could use them on my Big B, especially while standing during playing. Any thoughts?

 

[maddenma]

Are you talking about key guards or a pants guard? They all came with key guards covering the key cups on the lower keys (Eb1/2 to Bb1), but only a few have an actual pants guard covering the rest of the mechanism. The pants guard is the bit that protects the rods from the spatula down to the bell keys and then connects to the key guards on the bell. It's curious omission that I can only attribute to cost avoidance during manufacture.

To solve this I bought some brass rod stock, had "Martin Mods" mill an acorn on both ends of two of them (to replicate the 'Crat Series 1 pants guard), and am having "abadcliche" bend the rest and attach everything to the horn. You should be able to get a good local tech to do this, as it's not particularly difficult or expensive to do, but it does make a world of difference keeping the C# and B keys open (or closed) when they should be -- standing or sitting.

I'm in LA now through the end of the week, but send me an e-mail through the forum and when I get back to NYC I'll send you the plans I sent to everyone to have this created for mine.

 

[BarrySachs]

The big B had Buescher 400 style bell keys. The heights we adjusted in a different manner and they are positioned on the back of the bell near the body tube leaving no room for key guards.

 

[kingsaxello]

Are you talking about key guards or a pants guard? They all came with key guards covering the key cups on the lower keys (Eb1/2 to Bb1), but only a few have an actual pants guard covering the rest of the mechanism. The pants guard is the bit that protects the rods from the spatula down to the bell keys and then connects to the key guards on the bell. It's curious omission that I can only attribute to cost avoidance during manufacture.

Maddenma,

You are correct. I do actually mean the pants guards, not key guards! I will send you my email soon.

 

[maddenma]

The big B had Buescher 400 style bell keys. The heights we adjusted in a different manner and they are positioned on the back of the bell near the body tube leaving no room for key guards.

That's not actually correct. Very late Aristocrat baris (post 1960) migrated to the 400-style bell keys, but 1940 through 1960 "Big B" baris were actually TT's that used left-side bell keys without a pants guard. I have 3 of them, so I know.

This is the type of horn the OP is referring to. \\http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&a=2750

 

[abadcliche]

I'll post a couple pictures here when I am done.

 

[abadcliche]

Not cleaned up yet, but you get the idea.

The original plan was slightly different, but in order to get the C#, B, Bb keys out it ended up like this. Didn't end up using the parts Martinmods made because of the new plan, but the "acorn" rods were pretty easy to make.

Hopefully looks like it could have come from the factory this way- this is basically how a Big B tenor pantsguard looks.

In order to remove keys, the C# must be unscrewed and the key moved out of the way, and then the low Bb/B rod can come out, then the Bb and B can be removed, then the low C#.



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