[supersonic]

Is a early Buescher Aristocrat Tenor "darker" then a Conn 10m ??

I know the sound of a Conn 10M but its long time ago that I played a Aristocrat

so I would like to know if the Buescher is defenitly darker or are they close to similar in darkness/brightness

THANKS

 

[Pete Thomas]

I believe the Buescher would be somewhat darker, but that would be by my definition of darkness which is not necessarily the same as some other peoples'

 

[jicaino]

depending on the 10M vintage they're pretty much the same.

 

[drwhippet]

In my experience though both horns are dark by today's standards, your pro 1930s Conns will generally have a little brighter timbre than 1930s Bueschers--and perhaps a little more of a ring to their sound which I feel made them more popular with the jazzers. I have read that such a ring is due to the different levels of overtones in different brands; and it is said that Conns and Bueschers both favor the fundamental--as opposed to vintage Selmers and Kings which generally favor the upper partials (and thus have more of this jazzy "ring"). That's what I've read anyway, which tends to back up my own experience with all of these horns (I've owned several of each of the brands mentioned). I do not claim to be an expert on acoustics.

 

[ptung]

Tend to agree with Jicaino, as variance between two different 10Ms & two Aristocrats (not to mention set-ups influencing final character) tend to point to an answer something like, "Their character is too different to just compare light/dark." If you take a Conn with a modern set-up that you thought was brighter, and the Buescher with snap-ins that you thought was darker, and change the Conn's set-up to be more like the Buescher's, the Conn might well change to become the darker (in your own perception).

The main differences between prime 10Ms and prime Aristocrats are more about "personality" (balance of scale, power across scale, response, timbre, flexibility of pitch center across the scale, etc.) than light/dark.

 

[JL]

I've only played one Conn 10M that a friend of mine owns. I would say both my Aristocrat tenors (series one and 156) are brighter than that Conn. The Conn is one of the darkest horns I've played. But as Pete says, it might depend on your definition of 'dark.'

Oh, and just to throw a monkey wrench in here, I'll state that I find my '65 MKVI to be darker than my Buescher Aristocrats, although the 'Crats can be played just as dark as the VI if you want to play them that way.

 

[drwhippet]

Sorry, folks but light vs. dark is a real phenomenon. It DOES exist, as I've owned several tenors from all of the old brands across a wide span of years, and the 1930s Bueschers were by far the darkest sounding of all. Note that the OP is asking about early Series I Aristos and not all Bueschers. If he had said all Bueschers, then my answer would have been different, since yes, after owning a few 156's I would agree that they are not as dark as Series I's; on the contrary, they can actually be pretty bright in the upper register.

But from my experience Buescher Series I Aristos are among the darkest American horns ever produced.

 

[jicaino]

this is hilarious

 

[ptung]

It is certainly more chock full of random, totally wrong, and not necessarily responsive information at moments than the average thread.

And, then again, at the same time, not.

 

[JL]

It is certainly more chock full of random, totally wrong, and not necessarily responsive information at moments...

Maybe you could specify which responses are totally wrong. On this short thread (so far), I've only read subjective opinions (including my own), which can't be proven right or wrong in any way.

 

[jicaino]

JL I don't think Palo or myself for that sake are referring to your comments. :bluewink: Nor Pete's

 

[JL]

JL I don't think Palo or myself for that sake are referring to your comments. :bluewink: Nor Pete's

No problem, jicaino. I'm only pointing out that 'dark vs bright vs edgy vs warm vs whatever, is all pretty subjective. We all know what we mean, but may not share the same definitions.

Back on topic, sometimes I think my Bueschers are pretty dark, other times, especially in the upper register, they seem 'bright' and cutting. I imagine the same can be said for a Conn or a Martin, even if they are generally characterized as 'dark' horns. Bottom line, if it's a good horn you should be able to play the full spectrum.