Sax on the Web Forum banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
CL ad shows a '61 Buescher 400 tenor but the overslung neck has a straight brace that looks more like an aristocrat neck. Hope someone here can confirm whether or not this is the right neck for this horn or a replacement

This is the only picture that shows the neck:
104051
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
I, too, own a Super 400 Tenor. It does indeed come with an underslung octave key / neck. I would agree that the neck you show is not original. Is the case original? It doesn't look like mine, which has a small tag on the top of the case that says "Buescher."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I've seen some 400 with an overslung octave but never with that brace.
Guy claims the case is original. Here's a picture of the outside of the case:
104104
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
41,632 Posts
indeed the Buescher S25 has a overslung nek identical to your, everything looks kosher, these are among the last made before the Buyout

The neck above is absolutely original

the 400 S25 model has been discussed before from those better informed on Buescher (always remember Alexander Pope's phrase)


104127


104126
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru
Joined
·
41,632 Posts
OP's neck is original ( NOT only an opinion but based on a lot of research)

the date is consistent with what sax pics says as shown in the pictures the type S25 has exactly this neck

from wikipedia


EXACTLY as op's horn overslung neck and Buesher 400 engraved on the bell....

:"...
  • 400 models S5 alto, S25 tenor (1960-1963): no bell flare ring; nickel-plated keys; lacquer finish only; top-pivot neck octave key; one-piece side B♭ key; yellow rollers; "Buescher 400" engraved on bell..."

also sax pics ( a very god though not always right source) says that the S25 series had overslung neck (please follow the links where it says 400 series)

400 Series ( read under POST TOP HAT AND CANE)

and again here


104145


and this from the


Though this is an article about the "400" the above changes to the Aristocrat are important because in 1959, Buescher had a major rebranding of its saxophone line. The Aristocrat moniker was reassigned to its budget line formerly branded as Elkhart Band Instrument Company saxophones. The S-1 Super "400" was still available but the "400" name was applied to the saxophones formerly known as "Aristocrat." The new model designations were S-5 for alto and S-25 for tenor and bore an engraving nearly the same as the S-1, only lacking the word "Super." The newly rebranded horns lost the single-piece neck receiver. Measurements that I've taken of the tone holes, bore, and pad cups for models S-1 and S-5 indicate that very little is different about them. The necks are a different design and the mechanisms are obviously quite distinct but, little else about the bodies and bows are different. Throughout the run, small cosmetic changes were made to minor parts such as the bow guard, key guards, and key feet.
In 1963, the Buescher Band Instrument Company was purchased by Selmer USA. As the 1960s went on, the S-1 model was available until at least 1965. The neck receiver ceased to be the single-piece construction of its earlier versions, the right hand thumb hook reverted to the Aristocrat style hook, and its Norton springs were no longer tapered but otherwise it remained unchanged. The S-5, however would see some more changes. Gone was its on-top neck octave key and in its place was mounted an underslung key like the S-1. The teardrop-shaped, solid nickel strap ring was added. The bell keys were moved to the left side of the bell and their keywork simplified again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,148 Posts
OP's neck is original ( NOT only an opinion but based on a lot of research)
I HATE being wrong, but you are absolutely correct, and I've edited my posts above. I didn't look closely enough at the picture to see that there's no "Super" near the "400" on the bell engraving, and I'd forgotten about the S25.

OP - in that case, this is not a "Super 400" and not the same horn I own. It's probably still a good player, but it's no TH&C or "Super." Still probably not worth what he's asking (which is why it's still for sale). You can pick up a "Super 400" for near that price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
I stand corrected as well. I read (incorrectly) in the OP that he was considering a Super 400. Thanks for the link to the correct information. The OP's neck does appear to be correct for a "400." The case appears to be correct as well. While I can't read the tag on the case, it is similar to the tag on my case. The latches are the same as well. The handle has been replaced - obviously. The plastic handles on my case broke where they attach to the case.

For reference, my Super 400 (S20) with serial 384xxx. I received it as a Christmas gift in 1962. My dad ordered a few months before, so it is pre buyout. Great horn. I wish I could play it anywhere near its capabilities.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
504 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all the info. So if I understand correctly (which is doubtful :p ) the "Aristocrat" name got moved down to the next level lower models and this S25 is sort of at the level of what had been the Aristocrat but is now being labeled 400.

The "Super 400" is more like the old TH&C except for cosmetics.

I had thought the neck looked like it was from an Aristocrat - so in a way, it sort of is even though it is the correct/original neck for this particular horn since this horn is sort of an Aristocrat. Or am I even more confused now?
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top