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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
I'm currently working on my Buescher Bari - It a bit of a Franken Horn - body and keywork from 1911 (by the serial number - including a pearl G#) but with Snap in Pads but without Norton Springs and with Aristocrat Art Deco engraving.
When tightening the screw on a leaf spring half the screw head snapped off - and I was being careful - it is after all 100 or so years old. I can still remove the screw easily.

Ferees sell 0-80 screws for Buescher/Bundy leaf springs are these likely to fit? don't have a thread guage for anything that small.


Thanks for any advice
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, now that I know they are a standard size I'll look locally again.

Yes, I am used to ordering from the US. I usually get pads and other supplies from Music Medic and wait until I have a bunch of stuff to order to make the postage cost (and delay) worthwhile.

I'm slowly getting a collection of repair supplies together, springs, felt bumpers etc. I always order more than I need - for next time but I don't do enough to make buying up big cost effective. Just a hobby at present.
 

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JS Crescent, JS NOS, Selmer SBA, Couf Superba I, Conn, Buescher, King
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They're 0-80 on later. Can't promise on your vintage. You might order a couple the next size up and a tap, if you know how to use a tap. Can't go wrong that way, really. Welcome to the world of having to go slow to avoid nightmares.
 

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Better yet, two or three taps, and multiple drill bits in the appropriate sizes, and if you have to drill a new hole (because you broke a tap or a screw) make sure to leave room for another hole -- in case you break off in the first added hole, and can't remove the broken bit/tap/screw -- too.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks ptung,
Yes I can use a tap and die. I have 1-56 and 3-56 - I've been collecting them as needed. I'm getting quite used to sleeving and re-tapping posts and making new hinge rods. It would just be easier to find the right screw.
The Bari is slowly coming together but some times its one step forward and two (or 3) back....I reckon I've had about half the posts off to take out the dents where they have been pushed into the body. The crook has been apart and I've had to cut out some red rot that was all the way through - looked like Swiss cheese with the leak light in. Bell and bow will go back on once I have leveled the tone holes then I'll be in the home stretch.
Couple more weeks.
This is the horn in question: https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...anyone-know-about-these&p=3617930#post3617930
 

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Drilling and tapping a key for a new flat spring screw is a tricky business. A common mistake is to force the tap breaking it off in the hole. (Don't ask me how I know that.) The technique that I learned is to drill the hole slightly longer than needed without going through the key. Then begin tapping very slowly removing the tap every few turns and knocking the brass shavings out of the hole. It is the brass shavings that fill the bottom of the hole causing you to force the tap and break it off. Luckily you were able to remove the existing broken screw which makes the job that much easier.
 

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Drilling and tapping a key for a new flat spring screw is a tricky business. A common mistake is to force the tap breaking it off in the hole. (Don't ask me how I know that.) The technique that I learned is to drill the hole slightly longer than needed without going through the key. Then begin tapping very slowly removing the tap every few turns and knocking the brass shavings out of the hole. It is the brass shavings that fill the bottom of the hole causing you to force the tap and break it off. Luckily you were able to remove the existing broken screw which makes the job that much easier.
Yep, with 40 years of metal working experience I can tell you that working with those teeny tiny drills and taps is a whole different ball of wax than something like a 1/4-20 or M6. Those little buggers will snap off if you even think about looking at them wrong. Be careful, lubricate the bejeezus out of everything, use less force than you think, and go slow.
 

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I can't see why you need a new hole or to tap larger. You said you can get the broken-headed screw out.
How about get Musicmedic to throw a screw in with your next order. They have been known to oblige with unlisted items that they use themselves for repair work.
 

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Drilling and tapping a key for a new flat spring screw is a tricky business. A common mistake is to force the tap breaking it off in the hole. (Don't ask me how I know that.) The technique that I learned is to drill the hole slightly longer than needed without going through the key. Then begin tapping very slowly removing the tap every few turns and knocking the brass shavings out of the hole. It is the brass shavings that fill the bottom of the hole causing you to force the tap and break it off. Luckily you were able to remove the existing broken screw which makes the job that much easier.
No prob, davidlh.

Saxoclese's statement is why I included the warning to plan ahead, and allow for the possibility of breaking one tap off. One tip for avoiding that complication is to drill your hole a little deeper than it needs to be, and/or to (perspicaciously) cut away the tip of the tap (after getting a good start to the new threads), if it's conical & unthreaded, because if the hole is the same depth as the screw then that conical/unthreaded part will hit the bottom of the hole too early and the chance of breaking off the tap inside the hole goes way up.

Also, reason for suggesting a size up: you may be able to retap the original hole, and it may get damaged if you can get a stuck, broken off screw out of the original hole (many of the ways to get it out will involve damaging the original threads, no matter how careful you are). You need those threads to be strong for some flat springs (if they have to hold a lot of tension). If your tap is 0-80, and the threads are damaged, retapping probably won't do much good.
 

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Or finish the tapping with a "bottoming" (or "plug") tap rather than an "intermediate" or taper tap.

But as far as I can tell this is a thread about finding an appropriate screw , not re-threading the hole or making a new hole.
 

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Or finish the tapping with a "bottoming" (or "plug") tap rather than an "intermediate" or taper tap.

But as far as I can tell this is a thread about finding an appropriate screw , not re-threading the hole or making a new hole.
Gordon, I apologize.

I will try in the future not to post information, related to the original Q, that will be here to be useful to people for years to come.

(See: I can do passive-aggressive, too. I just don't have the time or energy for it, most days, and consciously avoid it IRL. Your resentment's 15 years old. Let's get over it. I'm not trying to be the boss of this area. I'm just trying to give back a bit more than I take, in posting here. Surely we can find a way to let resentments from 15+ years ago rest.)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks all,
Great advice as always. I don't mind the extra information about tapping techniques - not necessary this time but there is bound to be a next time isn't there.
 

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Gordon, I apologize.

I will try in the future not to post information, related to the original Q, that will be here to be useful to people for years to come.

(See: I can do passive-aggressive, too. I just don't have the time or energy for it, most days, and consciously avoid it IRL. Your resentment's 15 years old. Let's get over it. I'm not trying to be the boss of this area. I'm just trying to give back a bit more than I take, in posting here. Surely we can find a way to let resentments from 15+ years ago rest.)
I assume sarcasm. Although in a forum situation it can be ambiguous.
I totally agree that general information is good to present, but I felt that in this particular case the OP writer might be being led down a fraught path of re drilling and tapping when that seemed to be totally unnecessary. And I contributed info to that drought path too.

I have no idea why you have taken this personally, such that you need to attack personally.
Re "Your resentment's 15 years old. Let's get over it... Surely we can find a way to let resentments from 15+ years ago rest ":
FYI I have an appalling memory for certain things so I have no idea what you are talking about. The "getting over it", whatever "it" is, is entirely in your court. I take posts at face value, and although I am familiar with regular names that appear, I have little or no recollection of previous correspondence. I respond to the contents of posts, not to the person writing.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Quick update, found a mob in Melbourne called Micro Fasteners who were very helpful. They sent me 2 packs of 0-80 screws (25 per pack), one a brass finish one plain steel. I needed to cut it shorter because they only stocked the one length but now a perfect fit. Job done.

Thanks one and all. ;-)
 

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I assume sarcasm. Although in a forum situation it can be ambiguous.
I totally agree that general information is good to present, but I felt that in this particular case the OP writer might be being led down a fraught path of re drilling and tapping when that seemed to be totally unnecessary. And I contributed info to that drought path too.

I have no idea why you have taken this personally, such that you need to attack personally.
Re "Your resentment's 15 years old. Let's get over it... Surely we can find a way to let resentments from 15+ years ago rest ":
FYI I have an appalling memory for certain things so I have no idea what you are talking about. The "getting over it", whatever "it" is, is entirely in your court. I take posts at face value, and although I am familiar with regular names that appear, I have little or no recollection of previous correspondence. I respond to the contents of posts, not to the person writing.
If I had it wrong, that's fantastic. I'll take you at your word, and try to assume the best in the future.

That it be of use in that regard (chuckling as typing that, at the tone): I've always thought that you are probably an excellent tech (I don't remember now if I ever actually had any shared client's horns come in, but I may have -- if I did it didn't alter this opinion), based on posts over the years, but also based on equipment choices. I think I have actually referred one or two people to you over the years, privately, with basically the same statements as in this paragraph. Years ago (2002 or 2003?), on this forum pretty yourself and I were the only people forwarding Pisoni for its quality (I think you were then committed to synthetic). I credit my first tenor teacher, also the best tech in New Orleans, now, to me -- but I haven't been there working since 2010, when I left -- Martin Krusche, for my originally becoming aware of them. Having the good sense to make insightful choices for customers that are outside the norm speaks for itself. Now it's like a consensus, here, on them. How times change.

Anyway, I much prefer cooperation to needless provocation. If you're already on that page, that's fantastic. Will honor that. In the absence of needling. lol

davidlh - good deal, and good luck. If you find a really good source for 0-80 taps -- ones that are hard to break -- that deserves a follow-up post.
 

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Thanks ptung.

... (I think you were then committed to synthetic)...
I was using agglomerated cork (partly synthetic) for keys quite a while even before Yamaha did. I sourced it from industrial gasket manufacturers.
And yes, it has now indeed become a standard.
But if you meant synthetic pads, well I have never been committed to them, except I very much like music Center's synthetic "microfibre" leather on one of their top model pads. Unfortunately the pads are too expensive, but I use this synthetic leather on certain linkages on clarinets many on oboes.

...Anyway, I much prefer cooperation to needless provocation....
Likewise :)


I credit my first tenor teacher, also the best tech in New Orleans, now, to me -- but I haven't been there working since 2010, when I left -- Martin Krusche, for my originally becoming aware of them. Having the good sense to make insightful choices for customers that are outside the norm speaks for itself. Now it's like a consensus, here, on them. How times change.

Anyway, I much prefer cooperation to needless provocation. If you're already on that page, that's fantastic. Will honor that. In the absence of needling. lol

. If you find a really good source for 0-80 taps -- ones that are hard to break -- that deserves a follow-up post.
Cheaper, carbon steel ones are less likely to break, and are suitable for copper alloys. The more expensive HSS stay sharp longer, especially when cutting carbon steels, but snap more easily.
 

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...

davidlh - good deal, and good luck. If you find a really good source for 0-80 taps -- ones that are hard to break -- that deserves a follow-up post.
I think you can find good quality 0-80 taps (and dies) at Micro-Mark, a hobbyist tools and supplies site. https://www.micromark.com/Tap-Drill_3 Not sure about bottoming taps though...
 

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I think you can find good quality 0-80 taps (and dies) at Micro-Mark, a hobbyist tools and supplies site. https://www.micromark.com/Tap-Drill_3 Not sure about bottoming taps though...
For those in the USA, I would go straight to MSC Supply. They will have multiple choices and will definitely have bottoming taps. Recently for unusual threads I've been buying sets of three (taper, plug, bottom) packaged together.
 

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Turn a taper or intermediate tap into a bottom tap by grinding the end off it.
 
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