Sax on the Web Forum banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
im just a bit confused about the notes in the
blues scale................
can someone tell me the notes for
C MINOR AND C MAJOR IN BLUES..
and also would the same logic apply to
D MINOR AND D MAJOR....AND SO ON..
ive got a few books and some leave out notes,
that are in the scale...
thanks..
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
14,268 Posts
Sax40: To avoid a lot of detail and musical jargon, merely flat the third, flat the seventh, and maybe the fifth. The scale notes don't matter - just the numbered tones in any scale. DAVE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
chknbon said:
My take on the blues scale is: root, flat 3rd, 4th, flat 5th, 5th, flat 7th...
agreed
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,026 Posts
C minor blues scale: C Eb F Gb G Bb C (1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 1)

C "major" blues scale: C D Eb E G A C (1 2 b3 3 5 6 1)

(Note that the C "major" blues scale is the same as an A minor blues scale)

Yes, it's the same formula for D and every other key.

Do a search on blues, blues scale, etc. Also check out SOTW blues R&R teaching resource. You'll find plenty of info on this topic. It's been hashed out quite a bit recently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
358 Posts
Note that, in a mayor blues scale, the E natural doesn't sound very good when the scheme goes to the second chord (the 4), of course you can try but IMHO I don't play it then...
 

·
SOTW Columnist, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
23,026 Posts
Hammertime said:
Note that, in a mayor blues scale, the E natural doesn't sound very good when the scheme goes to the second chord (the 4), of course you can try but IMHO I don't play it then...
That's correct. The major blues scale has to be altered (drop the maj 3rd) when playing over the IV chord. All of this is covered in the SOTW blues teaching resource. And an extensive discussion can be found in several other threads on here.
 

·
Moderator
Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
Joined
·
28,952 Posts
Hammertime said:
Note that, in a mayor blues scale, the E natural doesn't sound very good when the scheme goes to the second chord (the 4), of course you can try but IMHO I don't play it then...
Not only does it not sound very good, it sounds very very awful.

A very basic approach is to use the minor blues scale based on the key over the whole twelve bar sequence, but the major blues scale over the root of the chord (in a very basic 3 chord blues that is, not in a jazz blues).

That is just a starting point of course, the rest is up to getting a feel for what to play - licks, melodies etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
chknbon said:
My take on the blues scale is: root, flat 3rd, 4th, flat 5th, 5th, flat 7th...

Is the formula the same for a minor blues scale? How many blues scales are there? Major, minor,......?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Ok, looked at some of the materials here on SOTW. So the 1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 is based on the minor pentatonic scale and is the monor blues scale which is the more commonly used blues scale. The major blues scale is 1 2 b3 3 5 6 and is less commonly used. Do I have it right?


Are there any other blues scales?
 

·
Forum Contributor 2010, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
5,076 Posts
There's no "major" and "minor" blues scale, really. The whole point of the blues scale is the conflation of major and minor. And the "blue notes" are bent notes, really: the "true" blue note is the note between the flat (minor) third and the major third, and etc. for the 5 and the 7. What they're talking about above is what you do when you're playing against a blues chord progression: how to handle the 4 chord. There are two questions here: 1. what IS the blues scale (which I believe is the question Nusax asked at the outset) and 2. how to USE the blues scale when actually playing blues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
What is the 4 chord and how do you handle it?

Seriously.

If this requires a long involved answer maybe you can refer me to materials that discuss this. Clearly I have to learn the 4 chord and whatever progressions before I get how the blues scales fit or don't fit.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2010, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
5,076 Posts
Now you're asking a different question: what is a blues chord progression? Fundamentally, the blues is a 12-bar form, and the chord progression is a basic I-IV-V, so in the key of C, the IV chord is F. If you're playing a ride in the blues idiom, you are mostly using notes in the blues scale, but when the chords shift from the I to the IV, you choose notes a little differently. That said, all the above commentary is completely right.

Here's a suggestion: I suspect all this is rather confusing for you at this moment. The best way to deal with the blues is not by thinking about it abstractly, or theoretically: the best way is by playing the blues (and playing it badly at first!). Find a guitarist or a pianist who knows how to play a basic blues (which should be easy) and then just jump in and do it. (Also, LISTEN to a lot of blues.) Then, after you do that for awhile (I mean many times, over months) go back and think about all this again: it will make MUCH more sense to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
Ok, will follow your advice, and will try to be patient. Understanding comes very incrementally. I've only been playing sax for a year, and sometimes want to make major leaps.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Columnist/Official SOTW Guru
Joined
·
3,764 Posts
NU2SAX,

No harm in asking questions...as long as you take some of the advice given?

There's an extensive set of lessons and articles on the Blues, right here at SOTW, read them. Then, if you still have questions, by all means ask away.

Contrary to popular opinion, in my own teaching, I've found the "here's your blues scales, now go find a guitarist to jam with and good luck" approach, to be one of the least effective approaches. I mean no disrespect to Reedsplitter, and I agree that jamming has its role to play. For the beginner, I think results come quicker with a bit of groundwork being laid before just blowing and hoping for the best.
There are better, quicker, more structured, ways to learn how to play the blues.
 

·
Forum Contributor 2010, Distinguished SOTW Member
Joined
·
5,076 Posts
I do respectfully beg to differ. Assuming you can find some other musicians more advanced than you are, blues as such is best learned first by doing. I doubt Charlie Patton thought very much about blues theory.

I would agree that if what you want to do is to become a jazz musician who understands the blues basis of the music, analysis is very necessary; and analysis can also be of great use to someone playing blues per se: but I've known many musicians who can play the blues perfectly without thinking twice about what the blues scale is, and many musicians who understand the theory perfectly, can play all the notes, and yet can't play blues convincingly in the least.

Ideally, one does both.
 

·
Distinguished SOTW Columnist/Official SOTW Guru
Joined
·
3,764 Posts
Reedsplinter said:
I do respectfully beg to differ. Assuming you can find some other musicians more advanced than you are, blues as such is best learned first by doing. I doubt Charlie Patton thought very much about blues theory.

I would agree that if what you want to do is to become a jazz musician who understands the blues basis of the music, analysis is very necessary; and analysis can also be of great use to someone playing blues per se: but I've known many musicians who can play the blues perfectly without thinking twice about what the blues scale is, and many musicians who understand the theory perfectly, can play all the notes, and yet can't play blues convincingly in the least.

Ideally, one does both.
Differ away.

I never said anything about analysis. Your comments above, make my point for me. Obviously both the succesful and unseuccesful player are out there jamming and playing. The question to ask, is what is the succesful player doing differently?

The old saw regarding the Blues, ie; feel vs theory, has been beaten to death, and I'm not really interested.

My comments weren't directed as an attack on you or your opinions, I couldn't be bothered. Rather, I am interested in helping NU2SAX find an efficent and results focused approach to learning the Blues, of which jamming is a part of, but not the whole.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top