[HoodedJeans]

hi. i play tenor with a blue jumbo java. i like the sound i get from it more than other mouthpieces i've tried but it is a little on the loud side and low notes, especially quiet ones, are a weak area for me. for playing louder music though, it's the bee's knees.
i'm getting an alto and am wondering a few things concerning which mouthpiece to get:

- might an alto with a jumbo java be easier to control in the low C to low Bb area than a tenor?
- is there a significant difference between the blue jumbo javas and the regular black ones?
- do any of you switch reed strengths for different playing situations?

 

[Pete Thomas]

and low notes, especially quiet ones, are a weak area for me.....

- might an alto with a jumbo java be easier to control in the low C to low Bb area than a tenor?

I can't think why. This is more down to your reeds and the way you play. But you don't say what you mean by "are a weak area for me"

- is there a significant difference between the blue jumbo javas and the regular black ones?

No, only the used asking price

- do any of you switch reed strengths for different playing situations?

I don't, and I can't imagine why anyone would. Just practise to get versatility of sound and dynamics.

 

[JohnInDenver]

I've had several Jumbo Javas for tenor, and consider them to be a pretty bright/loud mouthpiece...which seems consistent with your description. I imagine on an alto it could break windows unless you can control it. Have you ever tried the Java instead of Jumbo Java? You might find it easier to control. And that part about the difference in it being blue? For some reason people seem to pay a lot more for the blue ones than black ones.

 

[HoodedJeans]

thanks both for your responses.
that's very odd people are paying so much more for the blue ones. maybe they aren't. people are definitely trying to sell them for crazy money though.

Pete, by "weak area" i just meant i have difficulties hitting the low notes quietly and cleanly. i've not had that issue with other mouthpieces. do you think a softer reed could help? i'm using a 2.5 vandoren at the moment.

John, yeah i was thinking the regular java might be a good option - i'll see if i can try one

 

[Sigmund451]

Blue alto jumbos sell for absurd cash and its a waste of money. If you want to try one just buy a black regular model.

 

[SaxKeys20]

“do you think a softer reed could help? i'm using a 2.5 vandoren at the moment.”

I agree with other poster — adapt/adjust to your reed with practice. Mouthpieces dictate reeds more than note access (IMO). My jumbo java (regular) is spot on up and done the horn On my tenor, but I don’t ever put it on thinking I need a pianissimo low C either. I have other mpcs for that, which also sometimes means I use a different reed.

 

[Oric Muso]

There's a plain Java (without the Jumbo bit) if you want something a bit less strident. I really like the Java on my tenor.
I had a A55 Jumbo Java on the alto. It was quite a beast. A bit too raucous for me, so I sold it on.

 

[theneighbordubh]

For me Jumbos play easier then regular Javas. It's the baffle. Sell your blue one and buy a tenor & alto, you'll still probably make money on it. I had a blue Jumbo tenor and blue java alto and they were junk, but it could just be me. Had great luck with the black Jumbos on both alto and tenor, still play the alto occasionally

 

[HoodedJeans]

thanks for all the responses

 

[Tzadik]

by "weak area" i just meant i have difficulties hitting the low notes quietly and cleanly. i've not had that issue with other mouthpieces. do you think a softer reed could help? i'm using a 2.5 vandoren at the moment.

Maybe you should invest some time and money on different reeds (besides Vandoren).
Maybe it's the horn: some leaks are easier to manage if you are more comfortable with some other pieces...

Or it can be the mouthpiece to be checked: blue hard rubber is significantly softer than th standard black one.

Learning how to play "properly" on a high baffle mouthpiece is a good exercise... it's up to you if it's worth or not.

 

[Tzadik]

For me Jumbos play easier then regular Javas. It's the baffle. Sell your blue one and buy a tenor & alto, you'll still probably make money on it. I had a blue Jumbo tenor and blue java alto and they were junk, but it could just be me. Had great luck with the black Jumbos on both alto and tenor, still play the alto occasionally

Black Jumbos matter!

 

[turf3]

Personally I'd start out on alto with a standard mouthpiece before trying the ultra-baffle models. I'd recommend the standard Meyer 6, or the regular Vandoren.

If you learn how to voice the thing, a Meyer can be plenty bright and cutting - plus you can tone it down to "cocktail hour bossa" level at the drop of a hat.

 

[SteveS]

I love my sax-playing brethren, but there are some absurd ideas floating around in Saxland. At the top of the list is the blue alto Jumbo Java. I get an ice cream headache trying to rationalize why people ask (and sometimes PAY!) mind-numbingly absurd prices for them, as opposed to black Jumbo Javas, which are actually the same mouthpiece. And if - I say IF - there were any discernible sonic difference, it sure isn't $1000 worth.

And then there are the three-band Brillhart alto ligatures. Good Lord......

To the Original Poster, you might try a softer reed in the brand you currently play, or you might try another brand. Or possibly your horn is slightly leaky somewhere. Could be a repair issue your favorite tech could spiff up for you.

 

[HeavyWeather77]

Hear, hear! SteveS is preaching the truth. I have a blue Java tenor piece and a black Java tenor piece and they're of identical quality. These are Javas, not Jumbos, but... the difference is purely cosmetic. The black Javas (and Jumbos) are affordable, high-quality, professional pieces. I recommend them to my students regularly.

I tend to recommend the regular (non-Jumbo) Java pieces more than the Jumbos since they're so versatile. And learning how to play with a big, bright sound on a lower-baffle piece helps develop fundamentals of air flow and tongue position, too. But I do have friends who sound excellent on Jumbos, too! Both models are good.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I get an ice cream headache trying to rationalize why people ask (and sometimes PAY!) mind-numbingly absurd prices for them, as opposed to black Jumbo Javas, which are actually the same mouthpiece.

I spoke to Jean Paul from Vandoren about this. (They gave me a few of these when they first came out)

One of the wryest (French) chuckles I've ever heard.

 

[SteveS]

I spoke to Jean Paul from Vandoren about this. (They gave me a few of these when they first came out)

One of the wryest (French) chuckles I've ever heard.

Hilarious! I wonder how tempted he was to produce new blue ones with a crazy price tag! :-D

 

[SteveS]

Hear, hear! SteveS is preaching the truth. I have a blue Java tenor piece and a black Java tenor piece and they're of identical quality. These are Javas, not Jumbos, but... the difference is purely cosmetic. The black Javas (and Jumbos) are affordable, high-quality, professional pieces. I recommend them to my students regularly.

I tend to recommend the regular (non-Jumbo) Java pieces more than the Jumbos since they're so versatile. And learning how to play with a big, bright sound on a lower-baffle piece helps develop fundamentals of air flow and tongue position, too. But I do have friends who sound excellent on Jumbos, too! Both models are good.

Thanks! And I want to give you mad props for having students learn to play lower baffle mpcs. I learned that lesson MUCH later in life! I always complained that I could never get any kind of decent sound on a Link, or Link-like mpc. Then not long ago, I picked up a Ted Klum Florida Model tenor mpc after hearing people rave about them. Played like a typical Link "dud" for me on first blow. THIS time, I was patient and worked with it. Within a week or so, I was getting a big, fat, resonant sound. The key is knowing how to use airstream, tongue, and jaw position -- That is, how to properly voice a mpc.

Then just for laughs, I pulled out a Link and a Vandoren V16, and was able to play THEM now too! It's an important skill. High baffles and small chambers become a crutch after a few decades. Knowing how to voice a mpc is a skill that can get the most out of ANY mpc.

 

[J-Moen]

Hilarious! I wonder how tempted he was to produce new blue ones with a crazy price tag! :-D

I imagine this would then make the older ones worth even more since everyone knows 'modern ones aren't as good as vintage ones.' Just look at Beechler Bellite - those things are still the same model production as always, but the older ones are going for ridiculously high prices for what is essentially the exact same piece, color and all.

 

[jman1977]

Hilarious! I wonder how tempted he was to produce new blue ones with a crazy price tag! :-D

I imagine this would then make the older ones worth even more since everyone knows 'modern ones aren't as good as vintage ones.' Just look at Beechler Bellite - those things are still the same model production as always, but the older ones are going for ridiculously high prices for what is essentially the exact same piece, color and all.

Probably not fully justified by the higher prices, but there are actual differences between the older Bellites and the current ones. Rails and tip on current ones are thicker and the tip is more curved in the older ones and flatter I';m the current ones. Having owned multiple versions of both iterations at the same time, I have been able to make side-by-side comparisons both in terms of the build and the playability. The older ones definitely play better.

But again, not $500-$800 better.

EDIT: the modern custom bellites (not the regular ones) are more comparable to the older bellites.

 

[J-Moen]

Probably not fully justified by the higher prices, but there are actual differences between the older Bellites and the current ones. Rails and tip on current ones are thicker and the tip is more curved in the older ones and flatter I';m the current ones. Having owned multiple versions of both iterations at the same time, I have been able to make side-by-side comparisons both in terms of the build and the playability. The older ones definitely play better.

But again, not $500-$800 better.

EDIT: the modern custom bellites (not the regular ones) are more comparable to the older bellites.

Fair reasoning. Still seems excessive. Having played an older one and sampled some new ones, I didn't notice much difference other than some subtle facing issues. I had contacted Judy Beechler about my older Piece and she will gladly take in a Mouthpiece and have them clean up the facing and rails (which was free of charge, wonderfully). So, I figured they were fully the same production, I also thought the custom line existed back in the 80s as well, but could be very wrong. Although my history of Beechler products is far less extensive than with other pieces (I blame Theo Wanne for not having a Beechler page on his Mouthpiece Museum for me to scour).