[Grumps]

Trouble is, the scientists often tend to disagree with each other (adding more pages); so although the model of science may be a noble aspiration, it's not often applied in such fashion. Here, and elsewhere.

 

[hakukani]

...or the studies are in scientific journals that are not easily read and understood by lay people, or not available except by paying or having access through a university.

 

[hakukani]

Trouble is, the scientists often tend to disagree with each other (adding more pages); so although the model of science may be a noble aspiration, it's not often applied in such fashion. Here, and elsewhere.

Yup, this happens at all levels--sometimes scientists with power keep studies that disagree with their pet hypotheses from being published in peer review journals.

 

[Grumps]

You know... I did think of something. Something where science came in to help me out in testing a friend's horn; and I'm sure I got it from here. Simple thing really... but it had to do with comparing my curved TT soprano with a straight one my friend bought. The first one he got had some intonation issues, so he sent it back. Still, I remember it just didn't have the sound of mine. Before he got his next one, I read something about the angle of the bell and how the sound is directed back at you. Sure enough, when he got another straight TT (and this one played in tune), it didn't seem to measure up to my curvie... until I played it pointed at a wall.

Then they were exactly the same.

 

[spiderjames]

It's about the value of this scientific information in more practical terms and whether it's of use or not.

It is only useful on a personal individual level. Using the information as a form of debate to try to prove a point or change an opinion is futile.

To paraphrase from the bible, you could ressurect the dead and they still would not believe.

Here's what I believe Every thing you do to a sax makes a difference. Are the differences noticable. Not in any measurable way. Mostly because of the complexity of the saxophone and the fallibility and subjectiveness of human perception.

 

[hakukani]

So, another one for the 'we can never know anything' camp.

 

[Carl H.]

So, another one for the 'we can never know anything' camp.

I'm not just a member...

 

[58tenor]

Practical value= ZERO. But the history, physics,etc. is pretty interesting. None of that will make you sound better,though.

 

[hakukani]

I had a clarinet player buddy that always said there were two kinds of 'shedding--the kind you do with your horn and the kind you do without--and you never know when a skill, idea, concept, exercize will find it's aplication.

Some things I've learned with my horn are totally useless to me now. Some things about philosophy, life, and science have become essential.

 

[Rick Adams]

Is it simply a mental exercise for those wishing to expand and/or flaunt their knowledge base, or are we learning something of use... and if so, what is it?

I guess it's different for different people. I definitely fall into the "I find the subject interesting so I like to discuss it and therefore it is an end in itself" camp, but I also think my playing has directly benefitted by a better understanding of how my instrument works. I'd have to think a bit harder as to exactly why, but I have always found that the more that I understand the "why" of something the better I am at that thing. It's gone 12:30am and I've had a full day so I'm probably not making the best of sense here, but by understanding how tone is generated I think I can improve how I interact with my horn to generate that tone. Also of course I now have a better understanding of what types of additional or replacement equipment might (or equally importantly) might not have a beneficial impact on what I want to achieve. Also I find that as with many topics here on SOTW one thing leads to another and by discussing the stated topic I almost invariably pick up all sorts of snippets of additional information from more experienced and/or knowledgeable members that is shared in order to explain, illustrate, make a point, etc. and that may not otherwise ever come up in a more musically focussed conversation. I think this is specifically more useful for relative newcomers to the instrument such as me and especially so for those of us (again like me) who do not have other sax playing friends and acquaintances and so SOTW is our primary mechanism for tapping into and picking up all this tacit knowledge inherent within the community.

All of that said, if you were to say "yes but the whole lacquer/materials discussion has been done to death of late" I doubt I'd be vehemently disagreeing

 

[jazzbluescat]

My suggestion to tack egg cartons to the wall to dampen sound rolled over like a lead baloon. I don't think science is appreciated around here.:|

 

[hakukani]

My suggestion to tack egg cartons to the wall to dampen sound rolled over like a lead baloon. I don't think science is appreciated around here.:|

Egg cartons are just out of style right now.

 

[Mactenor]

Egg cartons are just out of style right now.

Egg Beater cartons are in-vogue at the present time, and they are politically correct.

 

[betelsax]

Science can demonstrate that Dukoff SPC 7 metal tenor mouthpiece produces the same sound wave as a Dukoff SPC 7 clear plastic tenor mouthpiece. Science can not demonstrate, however, how I feel or hear the two mouthpieces; they felt and sounded quite different to me.

I am all for the scientific method, but when it comes to all things saxophone (and a lot of other stuff), I'd like to see for myself.

In 1988, Polish television featured a ten-part film by the director Krzysztof Kieslowski called Decalogue. Each episode examined one of the Ten Commandments from a modern-day perspective.

In Decalogue One ("I am the Lord thy God; thou shalt have no other gods before me"), a man named Krzysztof introduces his small son, Pawel, to the power of the personal computer, a machine which he believes is infallible. It is winter. Pawel, anxious to try out his new pair of skates, asks his father if he can go out to the local pond which has just frozen over. They consult the computer and find that the ice will easily hold the boy's weight; he can go. But Pawel doesn't come home. There was a freak local thaw and Pawel drowned.

Generally, science is right, but in specific, individual cases who knows?

 

[Swampcabbage]

Science was right. At that precise moment of the measured temperature it was cold enough and strong enough. It is the decision of the human being to pay attention to changing conditions. A computer will only give you what you put into it.

Science may be right and I believe very much in it. But, it cannot quantify the human conditions and shortcomings and tell the future. Ultimatley, you have to decide what you are comfortable with.

 

[Giganova]

Now the science involved here is fascinating, no doubt, but as far as practical applications go ...

Science doesn't care about practical applications. It is a method to learn about nature, nothing else.

However, we the "end users" DO actually gain from scientific methods as instrument builders rely on scientific methods to improve their instruments (science of metals, sound waves, bonding of different materials, more precise manufacturing techniques, etc).

Personally, my playing does not improve from discussions about different metals, sound waves, etc. I read some of these threads because I find them interesting, sometimes educational, but it doesn't affect my sax playing at all.

 

[Giganova]

My suggestion to tack egg cartons to the wall to dampen sound rolled over like a lead baloon.

Was that a serious suggestion or intended as a joke?

 

[Grumps]

Science doesn't care about practical applications.

That's funny, because it seems to be at its best in preparation for war.

 

[rogerb40uk]

What's good about such discussions is that they often keep me interested in the saxophone and motivated to practise.

What's bad is that reading all this stuff reduces my practice time

 

[fballatore]

But my question to the group is... has any of this ever helped your playing? Have you used any of the knowledge gained from these discussions in a practical application that has improved and/or broadened your skills?

No, and no. I don't even understand it half the time, how could it help my playing?