[trane in training]

ok, so I'm a classical performance major, and after stumbling upon some money, i've decided to upgrade my horn (now a YTS62ii). Naturally I want to go for a VI, but being that everyone and their mother wants a VI tenor, and the good ones seem to be going for $6000+, I was wondering how similar the 54s are? thanks fellas


~Ben

 

[Swingtone]

If you want something that sounds closer to the "good ones" (e.g. like Joe Henderson's dark woody mid-50's 5-digit variety) you'd be better off getting a late 30's/early 40's Buescher Aristocrat or a mid 50's King Super 20 or Zephyr. Though they may have similar ergos, the Reference 54's are totally different animals in the sound department from the horns to which they pay homage. They sound more like a modern Selmer Series III--or like most other modern tenors for that matter--pure and bright, instead of dark and complex like the classic vintage horns recommended above.

 

[trane in training]

I guess by "good ones" I mean I horn with a really big, rich sound, and not really dark or bright, just with a good mixture of high and low overtones. It needs to be dark when I want it to and bright when I want it to....essentially...haha.

 

[NatureColor]

If you play classical tenor. Personally I like how a Mark VI can sound as sweet and string-like as a cello, but those are hard to find, and will cost alot of money. I perosnally like a Series II with a S90 mouthpiece(large chamber selmer) or with any vintage soloist to darken and sweeten the sound. SIII are good too.

 

[Al Stevens]

Get a VI. It's like a Corvette. No matter what else you drive, you always wish it was a Corvette. Even when you don't admit it to yourself.

As with a 'Vette, make sure you get a good VI. Test drive it first.

 

[J.Max]

Trane in Training is studying with Harvey Pittel, so he needs to get a Selmer, and the Mark VI is the Pittel horn of choice.

Get a VI.

 

[Hurling Frootmig]

Houlik plays a serie III horn and you would be hard pressed to find a better classical tone on tenor.

I prefer the Reference 36 horns to the Reference 54 horns. I think they generally have a bit more spread to their tone and I find I can play with the tone a lot more. Don't dismiss the 82Z's and the Yanagisawa 992's. My favorite modern tenor remains the JK's prior to 110k.

 

[J.Max]

I should have explained my comment. Pittel once told me in a master class (this is when I studied in high school with Vince Gnojek, one of his students) that "there is the Mark VI, and there is everything else." (I, of course, was playing a Yamaha 875.) He pushes Selmer HARD...which is funny actually because he's not a Selmer Artist. He also told me in an audition to UT that I'd have to get a new horn.

Get the VI. If you're studying with Mr. Pittel, he won't like it if you get anything else.

 

[trane in training]

My issues with yamahas (the one i own, as well as the customs I've played) don't play evenly all across. Sometimes I feel like I'm working far too hard to keep even tone quality.

And as for Mr. Pittel, I asked him about it, and he suggested a reference, mainly due to the fact that a VI up to the standard I'm looking for is almost not worth the ridiculous price tag.

I know the decision is solely upon me, but, as I've heard that the Vi is the best, the 54 is the best, and that they're both really good, I'd like to get some opinions

 

[NatureColor]

yea.. if you're studying with Pittel then you have to do what the man says. He prefers the Mark VI with a sort shank soloist. Get your butt to work~

 

[Billt4mn]

Get a VI. It's like a Corvette. No matter what else you drive, you always wish it was a Corvette. Even when you don't admit it to yourself. As with a 'Vette, make sure you get a good VI. Test drive it first.

Test-drive LOTS of them. I've played maybe 20 VIs and they are all over the map in tone and accuracy. Even the serial numbers don't tell the whole story, except maybe how much you should expect to pay.

 

[bfoster64]

Seems like the best alternatives to a Mark VI for classical playing are Selmer Series II, Series III, and Yanagisawa 991 tenors. I have been pretty impressed with the evenness and smoothness of the Yani 991 tenors I've played.

 

[rispoli]

Test-drive LOTS of them. I've played maybe 20 VIs and they are all over the map in tone and accuracy. Even the serial numbers don't tell the whole story, except maybe how much you should expect to pay.

I totally agree with this statement.
I have played one 151K unit (tenor) for one year and test-played several others in lot of serial ranges (last one was a 136K in a well known store of NYC, which was nothing short than terrible).
The serial range does not say much other than to the seller when it comes to pricing it.
You'd better trying a MKVI before you make such an investment, some don't stand up to their reputation but some outplay anything. Trial and error can be really costly in this case...

 

[rispoli]

I have been pretty impressed with the evenness and smoothness of the Yani 991 tenors I've played.

And that, in my experience, applies also to the entry level 901 tenor.
I have one which turned out to be my biggest positive surprise in my entire sax life (ok, not so long....).
But I believe he won't consider an entry level model as a possible alternative to a Ref.54 or Mark VI.

 

[Billt4mn]

Last one was a 136K in NYC well-known store, which was nothing short than terrible.

At the risk of making the two of us sound like parrots, I gotta tell you of my similar experience. I played a really poor 139,xxx for decades. Quite a few out of tune notes, fought me in the highs, stuffy in the mids...Bought it new as a know-nothing 17-year old (is there any other kind?) Had it totally overhauled with only minor improvement. Then I found a 91,xxx that blew me away and decided I couldn't live without it...even at 15 times what I paid for the 139,xxx in 1968.

 

[Billt4mn]

I have been pretty impressed with the evenness and smoothness of the Yani 991 tenors I've played.

The few Yanis I've played have been soulless tubes, albeit tubes with perfect pitch and incredibly easy ergos. Could easily be operator error, though.

 

[grevsax24]

Well, I play classical tenor and I find the Yanagisawa T-991 to be great for it. Unlike Billt above, I find it to have a great tone, and you can push it as far as you want to(and you will be hard pressed to find a horn with better intonation and ergos). Also remember that VI's have some er, major problems intonation-wise. In one run of Vi's the middle E & F are terribly out of tune and the high notes tend to have some problems too. Personally, I would not play a VI for classical, actually, would look at VII tenors over VI's if Pittel insists on a Selmer. (Sorry you VI bigots, there are better horns in the world)

 

[daigle65]

...Sorry you VI bigots, there are better horns in the world..

Yeah...like the BA

 

[JL]

I guess by "good ones" I mean I horn with a really big, rich sound, and not really dark or bright, just with a good mixture of high and low overtones. It needs to be dark when I want it to and bright when I want it to....essentially...haha.

If this is the case, then read Swingtone's post (#2) again for your answer.

I will agree with the others, though, that if you want a horn that plays/sounds like a VI, you have to get a VI.

 

[Swampcabbage]

And as for Mr. Pittel, I asked him about it, and he suggested a reference, mainly due to the fact that a VI up to the standard I'm looking for is almost not worth the ridiculous price tag.

I guess he answered your question. And even if you decide to go with a new Ref model then you should go where you can try out several of them and get them setup. Also,I understand that the 36's are preferred by others as well.