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Bias against Black?

13K views 63 replies 39 participants last post by  ferrari 
#1 ·
Hey all,

I recently started my search for a black lacquer/black plated saxophone and came across a troubling question I kept asking myself. Do any bands discourage members from playing on black saxophone for looking out of place?

I feel like it would be a nice horn to solo on, having that stand out feel, but I'm just curious as to whether or not it would look too out of place for jazz bands to completely discourage/not hire you because of it.

Thanks! :)
 
#2 ·
Good question. I really don't have experience with big bands, but I can say that in my quartet/quintet experience, my Keilwerth "Shadow" alto does attract a lot of attention when I use it, and not only because of it's sound (which is excellent, by the way).
 
#3 ·
I don't know if any bands are against black but I do know that in Hollands it takes a lot more time and energy to sell a black horn than it takes selling a brass one , same goes for any other odd finishes , so shops don't normally stock black horns over here and only provide them on request, payment upfront.
 
#13 ·
Another boring old man here. I love the look of a stage full of gold brass instruments. The odd silver among the gold is OK, but non-traditional colours seem to be saying "Hey look at me, I'm trying to stand out by how I look, not how I sound."
 
#16 ·
. . . but non-traditional colours seem to be saying "Hey look at me, I'm trying to stand out by how I look, not how I sound."
Pat, you're a good guy, but that's a pretty broad stroke you're painting with. I have owned three JK tenors, as well as a Conn, Yamahas and a Selmer. The sound of the JK tenor I have now is closest to the sound I want. It just happens to be black nickel, while the others were all lacquered brass. I think it's Dr G who used to say, "Go for the Tone".

To answer the OP - the colour of my sax has never been called into question. Since you ask about jazz bands, the only things band and section leaders have been concerned with are, 1.) can I read and 2.) can I blend. (yes/yes BTW)
 
#7 ·
I don't think that school band programs say to not have a black saxophone. I think that black is one of the standard colors for sax.

Now, green/blue/red/pink/yellow/rainbow/zebra etc saxes should be outlawed!!
 
#9 ·
This is lame......who cares what color it is. Or how much lacquer is left on it. Why not decide about a horn based on how it plays?

In my experience, and being a former owner of a black lacquered sax, it was much too dark of a sound for my taste. I was never really happy with how I sounded on it. I sold it and they guy who uses it now sounds great on it.
 
#10 ·
This is lame......who cares what color it is. Or how much lacquer is left on it. Why not decide about a horn based on how it plays?
I agree. However, reality is that many judge by sight.

An alto player I met at Berklee had a Black Nickel Body / Gold Lacquered Key Saxophone.com sax. He won a couple of classical competitions using it and both times the judges urged him to get a "classical" saxophone. They didn't like his horn even though he won with it! Crazy.
 
#11 ·
Some time ago I was given a couple black lacquered VI's. One is a soprano and the other a sopranino. The sopranino rarely comes out with me, but when I play my black VI soprano, many assume it's a clarinet. This actually works for me, because I'll generally use it with a dixieland combo when we don't have a clarinet player. I don't even correct folks anymore when they comment in regard to my clarinet playing. For some reason however, black lacquered altos and tenors just look wrong to me; and yet for another, I don't mind it so much on a bari. Go figure.
 
#15 ·
I've never seen an instance where someone was just flat out turned down to play with a group because of the finish of their sax.

For the most part...if you sound good and can hold your own most people don't care what brand you're playing on, let alone care about the finish (although back in my marching days I did manage to royally p*ss off my section leader by painting the inside of my bell right before a big nationally televised game :twisted:). Though in the collegiate setting, I have seen a few professors look down their noses at anyone who doesn't play the brand/model of sax they feel is superior...but that's another story.

Some definitely might buy a bright colored or unique looking sax to stand out, but that's not always the case. Before buying my Series II tenor, I played a handful...and the one that played best for me was black. Sometimes the horn that plays the best just happens to be the one that also stands out visually.
 
#19 ·
Many big bands in the 1930s not only dressed alike, down to the shoes, but they also had standards as to look of the horns. Players were expected to get their saxes relacquered when they started to look shabby.
 
#20 ·
Hey all,

I recently started my search for a black lacquer/black plated saxophone and came across a troubling question I kept asking myself. Do any bands discourage members from playing on black saxophone for looking out of place?

I feel like it would be a nice horn to solo on, having that stand out feel...
As long as your playing can back it up, go with it. If you are getting it to show off, there may be other issues in your future.
 
#22 ·
Personally I like alternate finish horns. Everyone's got gold. I am different, I want my horn to be different.

Anything BUT plain gold lacquer for me -- unless it's vintage and not available in another finish.
 
#23 ·
Personally I like alternate finish horns. Everyone's got gold. I am different, I want my horn to be different.
Well, the irony to my situation, and which is completely contrary to what was said above about why people get the black saxes, is that I actually don't like the gold/black combination of my JK. To me it just looks like bling. I would rather have a plain brass coloured sax and would have one if it sounded like my B&G.
 
#25 ·
If I'm not mistaken, the first black saxophone I ever saw was a black Selmer Super 80 when they first came out. While it intrigued me because my favorite colors have always been black and gray, I've never been fond of the black/gold or black/silver combinations. I currently own two Cannonball saxophones with the "Raven" finish, which I particularly like specifically because of the subdued nature of the gunmetal gray finish with no distracting gold or silver accents. Far less flashy than even a standard gold lacquer saxophone, but very classy in my opinion. Except for the fact that it's "different", the subdued gray finish draws less attention to the horn itself than any other finish I've seen. I may have actually gone for the Brute finish if it had been available at the time because it also has a very classy yet subdued "earth-tone" finish which I find very appealing...but the Raven finish very much compliments my own subdued personality. I chose it specifically for the non-BLING factor...(as well as the fact that it sounded good, and I did sample other finishes before I settled on the Raven). My least favorite finish is the Hotspur. The Blingy multicolor black and silver finish of that one does seem to smack of "Hey, look at me"...and I find that almost offensive to my senses. Some people just like Bling though. They wear gaudy clothes and flashy jewelery to draw attention to themselves...even tattoos. To me...the gaudier saxophone finishes are just another extension of that personal need for attention. Whether or not that's a fair assessment...that's the way it strikes me.
 
#26 ·
I'm playing my black Barone in my avatar. The thing is, it's so reflective that under lights it looks more like dark silver or some other metallic finish.

If anybody told me I couldn't play in their band because they didn't like the color of my horn, I'd take that as a clear indication that person was an idiot and I wouldn't want to play with him/her anyway. I wouldn't presume to tell the guitar, bass player, or drummer that I didn't like the color of the finish on their axes. If I told them they couldn't play unless they changed the color, I'd expect them to throw ME out.

I also have a black lacquer soprano. I played it at a sort of folk/acoustic jam and several people called it a clarinet.
 
#29 ·
Thanks everyone for their informative replies. Nice to hear some interesting stories regarding lacquer.. kind of figured they'd care more about your playing ability, but nice to get an overall picture on the feedback of the finish.

I used to play on an old matte-finish Selmer in high school, and I'd always get looks as to why the 'thing wasn't shiny' and looked 'out of place'... made me chuckle.
 
#30 ·
I assume that any band discriminating on the grounds of colour will also insist that their drummer use a traditional white pearl kit rather than these gaudy green, red or ... I can hardly bear to say it ... "black" kits.

All guitars, too, must be dark sunburst... and what colour is that amplifier!
 
#32 ·
well, I have showed this " diamond spiral " and " pink phosphor bronze" finish other times also known as " The Engine" and " the Pinko"




I have bought them for selling.......sooner or later I will find someone who loves them in the Netherlands , both these colours sell in the States ......
 
#35 ·
Buy what you want - It is possible to get both the look and sound you want from an instrument. My saxes are all different but they look great - My tenor is gold on gold, my alto - gold on silver, and the bari is gold on black nickle. All of them are pristine.

For me its a personal preference. I feel more comfortable in a professional setting when I'm "spiffy" :) Some folks are exactly the opposite. (or so it seems)

I iron my shirts, I shine my shoes, I clean and polish my instruments. I want to present as well as I can on stage. If I were in a section with all gold instruments, I'd probaly want an all gold instrument too - because I think it would make the group look better.

Besides - being well groomed and carrying a shiny horn is so much easier than practicing.....


PS. In the studio it's flip flops, shorts, and a T-shirt - and I'd be happy with a pink sax....
 
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