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Discussion Starter #1
Let us assume for the sake of argument that I want to put money into a reface and get the best blank for the least money.



I assert (based upon the need to start somewhere, hubris, ignorance, and boldness, equally balanced) that:

1. If I want a vintage Bilhart Ebolin result

best cheap blank to approach that is a modern Brilhart Ebolin 3


2. if I want a Meyer result

best cheap blank is a Yamaha 4C
(this is the only suggestion here that came directly from a refacer, who said he liked to "Meyerize" these)



3. if I want a Brilhart Tonalin result (kinda including the look), I should get one of the old King or Beuscher white mpcs that came with those horns


4. If I want a Selmer Soloist resultish
best cheap blank is the Goldentone.


Please provide any suggestions that are more appropriate, and correct the factual and other errors in material stated above.


Also, please provide suggestions for a cheap blank to work up a Tone Edge, Berg hard rubber, or some other top alto mpc for general use in, say, a community concert or big band, if there are any blanks in that neighborhood.


[I am assuming for the sake of argument that there are no cheap, used originals of the premier models being chased.

I grab one of these cheap, off the rack models, consult a refacer, let them know what I want, and go from there.

Or, contact the refacer, tell them the goal, and ask them to pick the cheap blank they want to work with to get there.]

Thank you in advance for your kind consideration.
 

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Maybe this will get you started for the Meyer.

http://stuffsax.blogspot.com/2018/10/making-your-own-meyer-brothers-6m-alto.html

The blog from Mark is interesting in itself (as are most of his blogs and articles) as far as this project goes. Scroll down a bit and he mentions there is an enterprising company making the meyer blanks again and probably at a whopping $39. Maybe Mark can chime in. Good luck in your further quest, keep us updated.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Maybe this will get you started for the Meyer.

http://stuffsax.blogspot.com/2018/10/making-your-own-meyer-brothers-6m-alto.html

The blog from Mark is interesting in itself (as are most of his blogs and articles) as far as this project goes. Scroll down a bit and he mentions there is an enterprising company making the meyer blanks again and probably at a whopping $39. Maybe Mark can chime in. Good luck in your further quest, keep us updated.
VERY COOL! Thanks!

1. I must have missed it. Where is the maker/seller's name for the Meyerish blank? I did not see it in the article.
The Yamaha 4C would be under $30, while the blank that looks exactly like the one the Meyer company used is only $39. That sounds like a good move.

2. Thank you for your interest. I am in no hurry whatever, and am moved mostly by curiosity. It may take me a while to get very far down the list!
I am playing a Ponzol .076 hard rubber on my Chu Berry, and could not be happier unless I had those 8 twerkers we keep hearing about hanging with me.
My Chu loves that Ponzol!

3. I will certainly report back with any findings.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Searched for $39 alto sax mpc and had no luck.
 

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You're welcome.
There is indeed no maker/seller mentioned for the Meyer blank. Maybe just send Mark a pm here if he misses this thread to set you on the right track. Have fun with the project.
 

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Discussion Starter #7

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Discussion Starter #8
Seems like the 4C has straight sidewalls? Not sure that would be a good Meyer blank, you would really have to carve on that :)

These look workable. They are still plastic, like the Yamaha, but if you want to fool around with refacing this might be a good bet. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Plastic-Me...d:g:iAQAAOSw0VxcPpxn:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true
So Meyer has a round chamber and the Yamaha has straight sidewalls. Sounds like some chamber alteration would be in order. Perhaps I misunderstood that refacer.
 

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Runyon 22's we're also a good choice a few years ago. I was getting plain black alto pieces for $15.00 through Paul Coats. I see that Runyon is still conducting business, they might be worth s shot still.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Runyon 22's we're also a good choice a few years ago. I was getting plain black alto pieces for $15.00 through Paul Coats. I see that Runyon is still conducting business, they might be worth s shot still.

That is an excellent addition to the list.

Charlie Parker played a Runyon Model 22, according to sources, and I suppose the current model could have the rails trimmed, and adjustments made to bring it into line with the vintage original!

That is a good one!
 

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I thought about this a little more and I myself would look at blanks from Bari and Jj Babbitt, both companies have a long history of selling blanks to mouthpiece makers.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I thought about this a little more and I myself would look at blanks from Bari and Jj Babbitt, both companies have a long history of selling blanks to mouthpiece makers.

I never thought of that.
 

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Find used items that are closer and better.

For a ebolin..get a no serial number ebolin but pre-selmer ownership.
...in other words Ebolin on the shank, no the body

For a Meyer...not a 4c...the floor is not meyer like and that makes a difference. Old Acouticuts are close but not quite.

Babbitt does not sell any blank that even comes close to a Meyer. You also have to be a business and Im pretty sure they will ask for your credentials. Not that its difficult to start a business but if you want just a few blanks here and there you are better off scouring boxes in old music shops. They are often a good source of cheap case candy blanks. Its WAY easier to do with in alto pieces. Players have not really changed that much in tip size over the years. You will find a bunch if stuff in the .060ish range but making it into a meyer 5 or 6 is not that much of an issue. Old tenor blanks in tiny sizes are another story. If you want to make some old .065 tip into a modern size you are looking at mastering a bias butt cut. Its a lot of work, its difficult and after all the work its really a gamble as to what you will end up with.

Not sure about what would be cheap for a tonalin...But dont limit your search to white pieces since the material makes only the slightest of differences.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Find used items that are closer and better.

For a ebolin..get a no serial number ebolin but pre-selmer ownership.
...in other words Ebolin on the shank, no the body

For a Meyer...not a 4c...the floor is not meyer like and that makes a difference. Old Acouticuts are close but not quite.

Babbitt does not sell any blank that even comes close to a Meyer. You also have to be a business and Im pretty sure they will ask for your credentials. Not that its difficult to start a business but if you want just a few blanks here and there you are better off scouring boxes in old music shops. They are often a good source of cheap case candy blanks. Its WAY easier to do with in alto pieces. Players have not really changed that much in tip size over the years. You will find a bunch if stuff in the .060ish range but making it into a meyer 5 or 6 is not that much of an issue. Old tenor blanks in tiny sizes are another story. If you want to make some old .065 tip into a modern size you are looking at mastering a bias butt cut. Its a lot of work, its difficult and after all the work its really a gamble as to what you will end up with.

Not sure about what would be cheap for a tonalin...But dont limit your search to white pieces since the material makes only the slightest of differences.

Is it correct to say that a modern Runyon 22 can be tweaked into the vintage one by using it as a blank?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Find used items that are closer and better.

For a ebolin..get a no serial number ebolin but pre-selmer ownership.
...in other words Ebolin on the shank, no the body

For a Meyer...not a 4c...the floor is not meyer like and that makes a difference. Old Acouticuts are close but not quite.

Babbitt does not sell any blank that even comes close to a Meyer. You also have to be a business and Im pretty sure they will ask for your credentials. Not that its difficult to start a business but if you want just a few blanks here and there you are better off scouring boxes in old music shops. They are often a good source of cheap case candy blanks. Its WAY easier to do with in alto pieces. Players have not really changed that much in tip size over the years. You will find a bunch if stuff in the .060ish range but making it into a meyer 5 or 6 is not that much of an issue. Old tenor blanks in tiny sizes are another story. If you want to make some old .065 tip into a modern size you are looking at mastering a bias butt cut. Its a lot of work, its difficult and after all the work its really a gamble as to what you will end up with.

Not sure about what would be cheap for a tonalin...But dont limit your search to white pieces since the material makes only the slightest of differences.

Thank you for getting an expert refacer input posted here.

I am convinced at this point that I must have misheard or misunderstood the refacer who told me he liked to work up a 4C into a Meyerlike 6M. Surely he was not rebuilding the floor.
 

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This one I felt was in family with Bilhart Ebolin after standard refacing.

plastik.jpg
 

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2. A cheap Meyerish ebonite blank (medium chamber).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-...=item2c8c6b2abf:g:~d8AAOSwd4tUGXm8:rk:31:pf:0

4. A cheap Selmer Soloist ebonite blank is still easy to find, but the prices seem to be going up on all of the vintage ebonite pieces. I think Ebay sellers see an old hard rubber mouthpiece sell for $400 and assume that all vintage pieces are worth that.

I don't know much about the Selmer Soloist, having only had one. Never bothered because I found others that I liked better. There is a side-by-side chamber comparison with a common Riffault in this blog, including a sound comparison. But both pea-shooter (Airflow) and horseshoe chamber (Soloist) pieces were also made by Riffault and sold under a variety of brand names. Those are still common and were cheap. Maybe not after this post. It could be that every old hard rubber mouthpiece is the Holy Grail, it's just that some need an exorcism (with sandpaper) prior to the revelation.

As I've said before, buying a vintage ebonite mouthpiece to use as a carcass to recreate the style of another vintage mouthpiece is a little like buying the same white marble used by Alexandros of Antioch so that you can recreate the Venus de Milo. There is a little more to it than just acquiring the right "blank." Still, the mechanical fabrication used to put a facing curve on ebonite (and cleaning up the baffle) is nothing compared to sculpting the human form in rock.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #19
2. A cheap Meyerish ebonite blank (medium chamber).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Excellent-...=item2c8c6b2abf:g:~d8AAOSwd4tUGXm8:rk:31:pf:0

4. A cheap Selmer Soloist ebonite blank is still easy to find, but the prices seem to be going up on all of the vintage ebonite pieces. I think Ebay sellers see an old hard rubber mouthpiece sell for $400 and assume that all vintage pieces are worth that.

I don't know much about the Selmer Soloist, having only had one. Never bothered because I found others that I liked better. There is a side-by-side chamber comparison with a common Riffault in this blog, including a sound comparison. But both pea-shooter (Airflow) and horseshoe chamber (Soloist) pieces were also made by Riffault and sold under a variety of brand names. Those are still common and were cheap. Maybe not after this post. It could be that every old hard rubber mouthpiece is the Holy Grail, it's just that some need an exorcism (with sandpaper) prior to the revelation.

As I've said before, buying a vintage ebonite mouthpiece to use as a carcass to recreate the style of another vintage mouthpiece is a little like buying the same white marble used by Alexandros of Antioch so that you can recreate the Venus de Milo. There is a little more to it than just acquiring the right "blank." Still, the mechanical fabrication used to put a facing curve on ebonite (and cleaning up the baffle) is nothing compared to sculpting the human form in rock.

Mark
a. SUPER! The info on a Meyerlike blank is splendid news.

b. The reference to the sculptor is apt. The point of the exercise would be to put the raw material into the hands of an artist/craftsman to shape it into the final form.

Flemtone Products never fail!
 
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