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Discussion Starter #1
I see lots of Berg's being traded.
Most are relatively inexpensive but occasionally one gets a high price tag on it. I haven't really found a pattern to this and I watch with curiosity.

From all the listening and reading I have under my belt, I want to try a berg and the one I have in my head may not even exist as I have never seen one advetised!
That said...I'm sure it must.
Does anyone know of an older metal 115/2/M duckbill?
I understand that bergs aren't that accurate in tip openings when compared to the number on the piece so effectively an originall condition 110 or 120 could play like a 115?

Secondary question, anyone have one in original condition wanting to pass on?
 

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very interesting question
never tryed one but would be interested to, they seam a reasonably priced piece
but what is there quality like?
 

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At least some of the price discrepancy might be whether or not the piece has been refaced.

You can get a lot of mediocre, mismarked Bergs for reasonable prices. OTOH I've got one that Ed Zentera did a masterful job on and I swear, it's value, playing-wise, has got to be at least around $350.00 when I put it in the context of other designer mpcs at the same or higher price.

I don't know what the "raw" price of mine is (ie stock price+refacing fee) but it plays so well, I wouldn't personally part with it for less than $350.00.
 

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But getting someone to reface a metal one one is a major chore; Ed won't do 'em any more. Stainless steel is a beast to work on.

I have a Berg SS 110/0 M scoopbill from 1962; it's never been refaced but is an excellent mouthpiece. My main piece is an RPC; but the Berg is my backup and runs it a close second. I have no idea what the Berg would be worth if I tried to sell it, thogh I won't: I like it too much, in the first place, and it has a certain sentimental value because it's the first "real" mouthpiece I ever owned (beyond the crap pieces my band director used to foist off on us).
 

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Reedsplinter said:
(beyond the crap pieces my band director used to foist off on us).
I was lucky enough to have my junior high school (yeah, he's pretty old even if he doesn't act it) "foist" an old SS bullet offset M 105/3 on me a while back. The only way he has let me pay him is to buy him coffee cards at the coffee shop we both frequent. It really calmed down my tenor mpc GAS.

I figure it's worth several gallons of coffee.
 

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saintsday said:
I was lucky enough to have my junior high school (yeah, he's pretty old even if he doesn't act it) "foist" an old SS bullet offset M 105/3 on me a while back. The only way he has let me pay him is to buy him coffee cards at the coffee shop we both frequent. It really calmed down my tenor mpc GAS.

I figure it's worth several gallons of coffee.
My band director was a trombone player. 'Nuff said. But another teacher (not a music teacher!) years ago gave me a 1952 STM! That's a pretty nice gift too, even though I don't play it (it's a 5 tip, bit too close for me -- I should have it opened up).
 

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gary said:
At least some of the price discrepancy might be whether or not the piece has been refaced.

You can get a lot of mediocre, mismarked Bergs for reasonable prices. OTOH I've got one that Ed Zentera did a masterful job on and I swear, it's value, playing-wise, has got to be at least around $350.00 when I put it in the context of other designer mpcs at the same or higher price.

I don't know what the "raw" price of mine is (ie stock price+refacing fee) but it plays so well, I wouldn't personally part with it for less than $350.00.
I would have thought $350 is quite low for such a piece, gary. I was looking at new Bergs the other night and they're aroud the £150-£250 range ie $300-$500. These are uk prices i'm talking, maybe the market is totally different in continental europe and the US. I would have thought that with a great reface yours must be worth the upper end of that price range. No?
 

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Wether you like them or not used bergs are undervalued. You often dont get the value out of the reface and it is hard to get one faced as they often require a lot of work and SS is a nightmare. Just like anything else a Berg fad will come and the prices will rise....especially on those that are playable!
 

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RootyTootoot said:
I would have thought $350 is quite low for such a piece, gary. I was looking at new Bergs the other night and they're around the £150-£250
OK. $700.00. Interested? :D

I don't know what it is about UK prices. I almost never order anything from there. Mike Duchstein (Berlin) sells used ones for about €126.00 ($180.00). Add refacing (which is [was] a higher rate for steel) and perhaps the street value would be higher.

The point I was hoping to make, though, is he was stating, "Most are relatively inexpensive but occasionally one gets a high price tag on it. I haven't really found a pattern to this and I watch with curiosity," that perhaps one reason is that the prices reflect not only the stock mpc price but added costs of refacing since so many of them seem to need it.
 

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I think Bergs are getting a bad rap. I've bought a few that played great and didn't need refaced. I have bought others that a refacer has made a difference in. Most mass-produced mouthpieces are not perfect (Links, Dukoffs, Meyers to name a few) but there are still a few good ones at a resonable price to be had. I usually buy mine from WWBW with a return policy. I order about 3 at a time and keep the best one. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for your replies all.

gary said:
OK. $700.00. Interested?
............. :dazed:.............YIKES!!!;)

gary said:
I don't know what it is about UK prices. I almost never order anything from there.
I live in the UK and like you I try to almost never buy anything from here!! :D
I don't know the true reason (rip off, cost of business e.t.c.) but what ever it is, the world is a small place these days and I usually get a better deal elsewhere by far!

gary said:
The point I was hoping to make, though, is he was stating, "Most are relatively inexpensive but occasionally one gets a high price tag on it. I haven't really found a pattern to this and I watch with curiosity," that perhaps one reason is that the prices reflect not only the stock mpc price but added costs of refacing since so many of them seem to need it
Thats feasable!
Can't blame someone for trying to recoup that cost.
But if that is truely the case, does it identify bergs lack of stature in the market?
Don't jump on me I still want one :D

What I mean is, assuming their condition is at least average, the more sought after mouthpieces or saxophones go up in value if they retain their originality.
Florida link, Hand Made Guardala....err MKVI's. A reface or relac would detract from these yes?
 

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gary said:
OK. $700.00. Interested? :D
Umm.. I'll give you 20 quid. Phil Barone says they're rubbish, apparently..;) :D

Seriously: This thing about Bergs really needing refaces - I must admit i've never seen a really bad one. The finish always seems pretty good to me compared to eg modern STMs and Dukoffs. I admit i've never gone so far as to measure exact tip openings and all that stuff...
 

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RootyTootoot said:
Umm.. I'll give you 20 squid. Phil Barone says they're rubbish, apparently..;) :D

Seriously: This thing about Bergs really needing refaces - I must admit i've never seen a really bad one. The finish always seems pretty good to me compared to eg modern STMs and Dukoffs. I admit i've never gone so far as to measure exact tip openings and all that stuff...
I've only had about half a dozen, and all but one played very well to great.
The one that didn't play had a grossly mishapen tip.

Why would Gary want your squid?
 

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I like squid, although it can be rather rubbery.
 

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Martinman said:
I like squid, although it can be rather rubbery.
I like it, too. But would you want Mr. Toot's squid? Milandro's maybe, but Mr. Toot's?
 

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saintsday said:
I like it, too. But would you want Mr. Toot's squid? Milandro's maybe, but Mr. Toot's?
OIIII!!!! We specialise in seafood round here. Mrs T is on a seafood diet. A seafood and eat it diet...

BOOm BOOM!!!
 

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RootyTootoot said:
Umm.. I'll give you 20 quid. Phil Barone says they're rubbish, apparently...
If you've read all of Phil's posts, you will quickly come to learn that there are really only two mpcs in the world that are worth a damn; Barones and Links. Nobody else really makes outstanding mpcs and most refacers are amateurs.

RootyTootoot said:
I admit i've never gone so far as to measure exact tip openings and all that stuff...
As a point of reference, my Berg (the reason I bought it in the first place) was that it was stamped .105. It turned out to be more like .90.
 

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Saxlicker said:
What I mean is, assuming their condition is at least average, the more sought after mouthpieces or saxophones go up in value if they retain their originality.
Florida link, Hand Made Guardala....err MKVI's. A reface or relac would detract from these yes?
Well... when it comes to factory-made mouthpieces like these bergs, it's not exactly the same. Out of the factory, the mouthpieces have flaws like warped tables or tip opening discrepency. Think of it like this: a refaced berg is like a properly set up Reference.
 

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Master.America said:
Well... when it comes to factory-made mouthpieces like these bergs, it's not exactly the same. Out of the factory, the mouthpieces have flaws like warped tables or tip opening discrepency. Think of it like this: a refaced berg is like a properly set up Reference.
I've played a lot of Bergs over the years and have only encountered two that didn't need a reface. I kept one and sold the other, (wrong tip opening). The new Bergs look great, but the ones I've seen had tables curved like a banana.
 
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