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I recently bought a Stainless steel mouthpiece that is advertised as a Berg Larsen. It says has 75 3 M on it just like a Berg. It also has a letter R. But it doesn't have the name on the opposite side. I inspected carefully and can't see even a slight trace of engraving, so, it seems it has never had anything there before. The mouthpiece plays pretty good. I searched on the internet but can't find anything about a Berg without the name engraved. I found one post on SOTW about a HR mouthpiece without the name. Only two people reply saying all Berg even the old ones has the name. I can't call it a fake or counterfeit because it doesn't have the name on it. And I search eBay but can't find any Berg imitation or clone. I compared the mouthpiece with my other Berg metal and it seems it is a real Berg. Just wondering, has anyone ever seen a (confirmed) Berg that has no name engraved? If it is a imitation or a clone, then I think it is a very good one.


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Id guess it slipped by quality control

I cant think of anyone who would have the machinery to work stainless and bother making fakes....If it was a fake it would have the name on it as they would likely have the tools. Also it after all that tool work it would make sense to put your own brand on it even if it was a copy. My guess is its a factory error.

Though I wonder what the letter R stands for ...maybe a factory Reject that slipped out...a prototype...who knows...maybe Research?

Then again I am thinking in English. Bergs are made in Belgium. Maybe the R is for something else in a different language. We could guess all day but I bet its a real berg.
 

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Nope...Not anymore...I dont know when they moved but they have been there for a good many years.

All I have found for a date was that it moved during the vintage duckbill era and when the milling marks changed on the table the machinery was also changed...so like quite sometime back
 

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Nope...Not anymore...I dont know when they moved but they have been there for a good many years.

All I have found for a date was that it moved during the vintage duckbill era and when the milling marks changed on the table the machinery was also changed...so like quite sometime back
No kidding! I had no idea. I notice that in all the stock pics of new Bergs for sale from places like WWBW it still says London England on the mouthpiece and ligature. Are those just old stock pics, or does it still say london on the Bergs made in Belgium?
 

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http://www.berglarsen.com/mouthpieces.html

Note the contact page also....main page says made in the EU which they are


The pieces dont say made in England...they say London England

You can write the name of any place on a mouthpiece but you cant say it is made where it is not.

Subtle play on language to sustain the original Berg image of being in London
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes, I believe this is an experimental piece. I agreed with the logic. If it is a fake, it should have the engraving. If it is a clone, with such a good quality, it should have its own brand and can still sell for good money.

I also have a 85/2/M, it has a much bigger bullet chamber than this 75/3/SMS. The baffle is also a little bit different. But the length of the piece, the dimension of the table, the machine marks are all very, very similar. I can't say they are identical, but feel they are made by the same company. I will post some pictures tonight.


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There are unmarked Berg copies. I owned one but most are hard rubber.
 

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I'd be curious if you have photos to see that R stamping. P models are well known but I had one metal Berg with an R in a distinctly different font than used for the P or M/SMS.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The one has no engraving:
- Smaller bullet chamber
- Straighter side wall
- Less profound concave baffle at the tip
- Scoop bill
- thinker wall at the bore








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I reckon Phil was right (Post #2, above). Berg Larsen made - R for Reject.
 

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I have an ss Berg from the eighties, stamped with an F between London England and the Reg number. No idea what it means.
 

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R = Reject would make sense as to why they wouldn't bother with further engraving. Hmmm
FWIW regarding this possibility, Otto Link used a similar QA process. Their rejects were stamped 2ND. Both samples I’ve seen had cosmetic blemishes, had the 2ND stamped and were never platted gold. They were both great players. I commented on these in an older thread.
 

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Then again I am thinking in English. Bergs are made in Belgium. Maybe the R is for something else in a different language. We could guess all day but I bet its a real berg.
Bergs are produced in Borgerhout (very close to Antwerp):
http://www.berglarsen.com/contact.html

They speak Dutch (Flemish) in that part of Belgium. The "R" doesn't ring a bell to me in Dutch and I also don't think they would mark an international brand in the local language, so I guess your "Rejected" isn't a bad guess.
 
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