[IsaacOH]

Hey, all.

I just started my sax adventure a couple of months ago. I've been playing jazz guitar forever, but wanted to pick up a 2nd instrument, as inspired as I've been lately by some vintage sax players. So: I picked up a fine alto and started plugging along on scales and arps and the like. So christmastime comes along and I decide "hey, why not try out these c-mels I've heard so much about"--so I bought one. This one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/260907774920?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Mostly what I was looking for is it NOT needing $400 worth of pad work. So, can anyone tell me what I've done here? Any problems I can anticipate? I've heard that the intonation is better on the straight-necks than on the curved Conns...

Also, what can I tell the local haters who say stuff like "enjoy your $400 lamp" etc.

Thanks!

 

[Little Sax]

[...]Mostly what I was looking for is it NOT needing $400 worth of pad work. So, can anyone tell me what I've done here? Any problems I can anticipate? I've heard that the intonation is better on the straight-necks than on the curved Conns...

Welcome to the CMel club!
Part of why Cmels get such a bad rap is that their set ups have been performed with as much enthusiasm as the tech has for the instrument in general...

Conn Cmels are built just as well as any other Conn from the same year of manufacture.

Assuming the set up was performed well, hopefully the person who set up this horn do so as a Cmel and not a Tenor as it should be treated as its own instrument.

I haven't played a Conn Cmel that old, so I can't comment on anything particular to that style, but I love my New Wonder and it plays very well in tune.

Also, what can I tell the local haters who say stuff like "enjoy your $400 lamp" etc.[...]

Don't tell them anything, just play the hell out of the horn and put 'em in their place that way.

Good Luck!

 

[IsaacOH]

Welcome to the CMel club!

...

Don't tell them anything, just play the hell out of the horn and put 'em in their place that way.

Good Luck!

Thanks! I bet I'll be spending quite a little bit of time here in the coming months.

Yes, and it may take a couple of years but SOON I'll be putting them in their place with my sheets of sound

 

[cvsimson]

Judging by the information at the auction, and by the pictures, the pads are new, so you got one that doesn't seem to need addtional expenses to be playable.
The Conn C-mels lean toward a more altoish sound, and work well with some Alto mouthpieces, so you can start to have fun by trying all your mouthpieces and find out the ones that give best intonation and sound. I am playing my Conn with a Metalite or a Runyon red Alto piece.
The next step would be to venture into Tenor mouthpieces. Tenor Metalites work well too, and will give you a different sound.
Enjoy your new sax.

 

[Little Sax]

Judging by the information at the auction, and by the pictures, the pads are new, so you got one that doesn't seem to need addtional expenses to be playable.
The Conn C-mels lean toward a more altoish sound, and work well with some Alto mouthpieces, so you can start to have fun by trying all your mouthpieces and find out the ones that give best intonation and sound. I am playing my Conn with a Metalite or a Runyon red Alto piece.
The next step would be to venture into Tenor mouthpieces. Tenor Metalites work well too, and will give you a different sound.
Enjoy your new sax.

I much prefer a modern Cmel mpc (that uses tenor reeds) to any of the Alto of Tenor mpcs out there.
If I HAD to use an alto mpc, I'd use a 'Link STM.
If I HAD to use a tenor mpc, I'd use a Selmer Jazz (Metal) mpc.

The Morgan Cmel mpc is what I use. (Junkdude.com sell these.)
Beechler's Cmel mpc is pretty good. The Meyer is reasonable. The Runyon isn't my cup of tea. The Babbit is often listed on eBay for less than $50 which makes it the bargain of the group, but you get what you pay for.

You can also have Bill Street make one (I haven't tried his, but they're highly regarded) or have one of the many refacers around here make one (I have one from David Jary who finished a Cmel blank to use tenor reeds).

Good Luck!

(I haven't tried any of the Aquilasax.com Cmel mpcs, but some have spoken highly of them.)
You can

 

[cvsimson]

Little Sax,
I have a Morgan C, and it isn't my favorite on my main C-melody, the Buescher. The intonation is really good, but the sound I get is not as interesting as what I get with my Link STM.
I will give it another try on the Conn, to see if I like it. I just got a King, so I will try the Morgan on it too.

IsaacOH,
as you can see, trying mouthpieces is part of the fun with C-mels.

 

[Little Sax]

Little Sax,
I have a Morgan C, and it isn't my favorite on my main C-melody, the Buescher. The intonation is really good, but the sound I get is not as interesting as what I get with my Link STM.
I will give it another try on the Conn, to see if I like it. I just got a King, so I will try the Morgan on it too.

IsaacOH,
as you can see, trying mouthpieces is part of the fun with C-mels.

The Cmel might be closer to a tenor in length, but the taper seems closer to an alto.
Part of the key here is to match the chamber of the mpc to the horn to help tuning as well as sound quality.
Using a large chamber alto mpc or a small chamber tenor mpc helps in that regards.

My Morgan and Jary mpcs both respond and sound the best on my Conn.

 

[bruce bailey]

Nice horn. I have a few of these and use a Selmer alto mouthpiece.

 

[DannyMetalC]

I just started my sax adventure a couple of months ago. I've been playing jazz guitar forever, but wanted to pick up a 2nd instrument, as inspired as I've been lately by some vintage sax players. So: I picked up a fine alto and started plugging along on scales and arps and the like. So christmastime comes along and I decide "hey, why not try out these c-mels I've heard so much about"--so I bought one. This one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/260907774920?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Hi Isaac,

You took the exact route I took. I have been playing guitar for 12 years and jazz guitar for the last 5, and through that I was led to my first Sax, my 1920 Conn C-Mel. I can guarantee you are going to have a ton of fun learning on yours, by the pictures it looks like it should play right "out of the box" or rather probably a funny smelling sort of case. At any rate, it looks to be in great condition, and a solid horn. I didn't ever even try an alto, I was lucky enough to get my first Conn C as a gift and learn on that. As a guitar player, you will really really really appreciate this horn and the advantages of having a concert pitched sax. You will find that the learning goes so fast you will get really sucked into playing this instrument...

As you can see by my avatar, it is quite rapidly addicting. I started with one, now on three, and more are planned. All three of my horns are consecutive models of Conn C-Tenors, and they all get regular use.

Be warned: Your guitars might find themselves in a case or gathering dust on a stand more so than usual!

haha, welcome to the club and enjoy your Conn! I use a Rico Metalite M7 Tenor mouthpiece on all my Conn C-Melodies and it gives a very nice powerful and loud tone, lotta bang for the buck.

A fellow C Saxtarist Guitaxophone player,
Best regards,
-Danny

 

[IsaacOH]

Hey everyone! Thanks for the support. Only a few more days til that sweet Conn is in my hands

Incidentally, can someone explain to me what's going on in the lower stack? I'm not familiar with keywork on vintage saxes--I see four pearl buttons rather than the usual three above the spatula keys and then what looks like an alt f#...

http://s778.photobucket.com/albums/...uner%20neck/?action=view&current=DSC07660.jpg

What's going on there?

 

[Grumps]

The extra key between the F and E keys is a G# trill key, which trills G to G#. You horn also has a working fork Eb, which is an added way to trill from D to Eb by fingering D and lifting your right middle finger to get Eb. Sometimes you'll see such horn with a cork closing the added Eb tone hole, or the key will be reverse sprung as not everyone is into this added fingering for various reasons.

 

[Little Sax]

The extra key between the F and E keys is a G# trill key, which trills G to G#. You horn also has a working fork Eb, which is an added way to trill from D to Eb by fingering D and lifting your right middle finger to get Eb. Sometimes you'll see such horn with a cork closing the added Eb tone hole, or the key will be reverse sprung as not everyone is into this added fingering for various reasons.

The forked Eb that Grumps mentioned can be nice when moving from Low-C to Eb or F to Eb. I use it all the time on my 12M Bari.
The tone hole is nice and big on Conn bari's and Csop's, but small and (for some reason) relatively easy to have problems with regulation on Altos, Cmels, and Tenors. FWIW - I always keep mine functional. If you want to deactivate it, talk with your tech first as simply reversing the spring or corking it shut messes with the spring tension in the lower stack as the pad is expected to be working.

Good Luck!

 

[IsaacOH]

Only one more day until I am happily with my new Conn!

I have another question, though!

It appears as though the pads that it's been fitted with have only small metal rivets at the center and NO resonators. Is that going to be a problem/contribute to a muffled, "stuffy" or otherwise unpleasant tone?

I'm definitely not concerned with having a piercing, bright tone. I'm much more partial to a "concert" sax sound, more like Lester Young, say--rich and mellow... so is this going to be what I want?

Thanks!!

 

[cvsimson]

The original Conn pads for this era were like that.
That being said, you would get more volume and projection with resonators. It is a matter of personal preference, based on what is the sound you want.
My suggestion is for you to use it as it is for a while, try different mouthpieces, reeds, and then decide if it is worth the trouble (and $$) to put resonators on. It might be cheaper to get another one on e-bay with resonators in already.
What I did to mine that had the same kind of pads, just to test the idea, was to buy some self adhesive metal foil, cut it in the shape of my pads (just a bit smaller than the tonehole rings) and stick them to the pads. It caused a positive change to my ears, without having to re-pad the horn.

 

[IsaacOH]

...
What I did to mine that had the same kind of pads, just to test the idea, was to buy some self adhesive metal foil, cut it in the shape of my pads (just a bit smaller than the tonehole rings) and stick them to the pads. It caused a positive change to my ears, without having to re-pad the horn.

That was my second question--is this a generally-accepted practice (not that that REALLY matters!)? Is there a way to add (glue?) resonators onto pads permanently without replacing the pads wholesale and (preferably) without having to disassemble most or all of the horn?

 

[DannyMetalC]

That was my second question--is this a generally-accepted practice (not that that REALLY matters!)? Is there a way to add (glue?) resonators onto pads permanently without replacing the pads wholesale and (preferably) without having to disassemble most or all of the horn?

You will have to take the keys off to pull this off. No other way unless you want to glue your toneholes shut.

My advice:
Don't worry about things like resonators until you find a good mpc reed combo that works for you, and you have a certain amount of months of practice under your belt. Your Conn C will sound great with or without resonators (I have one of each), only when you the player are getting good. Darker classier sound without resos, and brighter edgier more rockin sound with.

my $.00000000000000000000002,
Danny

 

[IsaacOH]

Don't worry about things like resonators until you find a good mpc reed combo that works for you, and you have a certain amount of months of practice under your belt. Your Conn C will sound great with or without resonators (I have one of each), only when you the player are getting good. Darker classier sound without resos, and brighter edgier more rockin sound with.

Thanks, bud! I of course have a tendency to over-think things, especially when I am excited to receive said things in the mail (like, say tomorrow!)

I'll report back with details! Currently (for the hell of it) I'm exploring different ligature options. I've been using a Rico A3 on my alto and am finally developing enough air support to get it to sing... but I feel like trying out a string/string-and-epoxy or o-ring-based ligature. Just cuz I'm a DIY kind of dude.

'til later!

 

[DannyMetalC]

No worries man. No problem with over thinking its a sure sign of the excitement to come.

A DIY type huh?

Just wait till the first time you pull your Conn apart yourself! My second Conn I got was my first ever self repadding/restoration so that I could continue practicing on the first one. It was a crusty tarnished old 1919 Conn with rocks for pads that I got cheap for 200. It only took about 7 months to restore and there is such a rewarding feeling when you get it all back together and play the first notes. Its the far left horn in my avatar and now it just looks absolutely stunning, and plays erm.... well.... decent. I took it to a tech and he said its still about $200 out from being in top-notch condition but I had done a great job resurrecting it! If its something your interested in, the thread of the restoration is detailed here: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?158681-My-first-Saxophone-Restoration-Danny

It is actually the reason I signed up here on SOTW, the advice was invaluable in making sure I didn't hurt it or botch the restoration.

Anyways, Yes till later! Enjoy your Conn,

-Danny

 

[Captain Beeflat]

Thanks, bud! I of course have a tendency to over-think things, especially when I am excited to receive said things in the mail (like, say tomorrow!)

I'll report back with details! Currently (for the hell of it) I'm exploring different ligature options. I've been using a Rico A3 on my alto and am finally developing enough air support to get it to sing... but I feel like trying out a string/string-and-epoxy or o-ring-based ligature. Just cuz I'm a DIY kind of dude.

'til later!

Perhaps you are indeed jumping too far ahead.
My advise would be to take one thing at a time.
Initially get to know the horn....at first it will feel strange & the keywork (unless you have previously played 1920s horns) will need a mental readjustment.
Conns probably have the most friendly key action of all the C tenors & are built like tanks (there...I can say nice things about the Conn. :bluewink
To be even thinking about ligatures at this stage is equivalent to designing a car's ashtray before the suspension.
I do so hope that you enjoy your horn...they are quite delightful.

 

[Mal 2]

That was my second question--is this a generally-accepted practice (not that that REALLY matters!)? Is there a way to add (glue?) resonators onto pads permanently without replacing the pads wholesale and (preferably) without having to disassemble most or all of the horn?

Actually there is... sort of. You can use aluminum tape like this, cut out with scissors and stuck to the pad surface. This is just temporary, as moisture will eventually cause them to peel off, and it also may leave some adhesive behind on the pad surface (not such a big deal if it's nowhere near the tone hole rim). It *will*, however, allow you to determine cheaply and easily if resonators would do any good. While you could INSTALL such resonators with the keys in place (stick it to the end of a flat-head screwdriver and insert, then smooth it down with a popsicle stick), REMOVING them would probably be difficult to impossible.

Also, putting resonators on the left hand stack alone will do more than half the job. These pads are smaller (therefore cheaper), and come into play on almost every note. The larger, lower pads only come into play on the "long tube" notes, so putting resonators on them doesn't have as much of an effect.

Overall, you may not want to bother. Conns tend to be the brightest C-mels anyhow, and personally I prefer the horn itself to be slightly on the dark side so that I can use a higher-baffled mouthpiece and not end up overpoweringly, paint-peelingly bright. I find that I have an easier time playing loud this way, as well as somewhat easier altissimo (though you probably aren't concerned about that yet). If you want to get a bigger yet still bright sound, try a high-baffled TENOR mouthpiece like a Berg Larsen 0 chamber. The larger reed will give more body to the sound, but the small chamber will keep things in tune and bright.