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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey friends. So I have been listening to a lot of the more modern days greats alot latel, and to be honest I keep coming back to two of my most favorite sounding alto players one being the great Earl Bostic (granted I realize he most definitely does not fit into the category of modern day players) however I just cannot get over his tone. Granted I’m sure a lot of it has to do with his phenomenal technique and incredible outlandish Altissimo. And the other has to be probably my favorite player of today’s era Gerald Albright. I could be wrong but from what I read it appears that they both have been playing Beechler diamond inlay hard rubber mouthpieces. Now don’t shoot the messenger lol as I’m sure it’s going to be difficult to find accurate information on what Mr Bostic played as it was way back in the 40s if I’m not mistaken. However from what I have read thus far, It’s apparent that his main piece was indeed a Beechler. Now it’s much easier to find out what Mr. Albright place because it’s right there published on Beechler’s website.
To me Gerald has an incredibly bright tone. So I was kind of shocked to see that he was just playing a simple roll over baffle design. I thought for sure he would’ve been on something more like along the lines of a high baffle Dukoff, or maybe a Jody Jazz Jet or at least something along those lines. Is there something special about these hard rubber Beechlers that Are able to provide such an extremely focused and unordinary brilliant tone, without the trade off harshness that many super high baffles are often known for?

i’ll be honest I’ve never seen one of these Beechler Diamonds in hand. But according to the pictures that I have seen, it appears like they have very flat sidewalls that taper in and really squeeze into a tiny tiny small chamber. I guess I always assumed that a higher baffle was going to create more brightness than a small chamber however it appears that I definitely overlooked the importance of chamber size and just how much influence that has on one particular sound. For all those mouthpiece experts out there I would love to hear your take on this. Am I perhaps thinking this through correctly? Or am I just basically blowing smoke up my own ass and find myself loving their tone just simply because they are the some of worlds greatest alto players.
If indeed there is some truth to what my thought process has shown, I’m really quite excited about possibly selling both of my Meyers and purchasing one of these brilliantly bright super focused Beechler diamond inlays. My guess would have to be the small chamber is probably the one that would Would best give me that ideal sound that I’m looking for.

I would love to hear from anyone and everyone who has any sort of interest in this. Feel free to tell me that I might be on to something here. As well as feel free to tell me that I’m full of 💩😉.
I look at any type of criticism as a learning experience and that’s what this is all about for me. Thank you

sean
 

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I used to own this piece in number 5 and I didn't like it at all. It was very resistant/difficult to play. I sold it very cheap on Reverb. But I am just an amateur so my experience might only apply to beginner (or a little bit above) level. I remember seeing good comments on this piece before.

For bright HR piece, have you tried the Vandoren V16 S+ series? I have a A5 S+ and it is quite bright and much more free blowing than the Beechler diamond inly HR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
To be honest I’ve never actually owned any Vandoren mouthpieces. However I do intend on getting a jumbo Java most likely for my Tenor as I already have two very bright mouthpieces for my alto. I guess many of you are going to say then why are you looking for another bright mouthpiece like the one that you are inquiring about (Beechler Diamond Inlay)?
Well that’s a great question however from what I’m hearing when I hear these greats playing on this HR beechler vs Other greats that play on Dukoffs, or Lakeys, and Bergs etc. Is there seems to be a laser like the difference in terms of the precision and focus that at least I’m picking up on the Beechler whereas the others also known to be complete screamers as well seem to have an added harshness for lack of a better word that appears to accompany the brightness that many Dukoffs are known for. Don’t get me wrong I love the sound of both types. I absolutely fell in love the first time I’ve ever heard David Sanborn play. Describing sound is one of the more difficult things that we have to deal with in this particular trade that we have taken up so I can’t quite articulate what I’m actually hearing but I guess I would say I’m not hearing nearly as many of the upper harmonics/overtones with each note that you are often heavily hearing when playing a mic’d Dukoff to it Max


Gosh I hope that makes sense. It’s so difficult because it makes sense in my head but coming up with the proper words to articulate exactly what you hear and then describe it to someone else is very difficult as I’m sure you all know. I do plan on getting a jumbo Java like I said probably for tenor (either t55 or t75) However For my alto, I’m super interested in that Gerald Albright clean super focused bright yet still gorgeous tone.


I appreciate you chiming in with that great suggestion as I know I’ve heard nothing but wonderful things about the new Vandoren S+
 

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I bought an Alto Diamond Inlay S5S in the late 90's. I was never able to play it nor did I make an effort to spend time trying to tame it. Very resistant piece. I still have it. Not really sure why.
 

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I had a Beechler diamond alto piece that was virtually unplayable, so their consistency appears to be a problem. Unless you can try before buying, I recommend the Vandoren jumbo java. Vandorens are renown for their consistency and have always played great for me. With the right reed, a jumbo java can provide tons of cut without being harsh.
 

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There are 3 different chamber designs for the Beechler diamond. The small chamber has a higher baffle to a horseshoe chamber. I am not exactly sure about the medium and large though one has straight sidewalls into an oval chamber.

I think the small chamber is favored for a bright sound. It seems to be somewhat similar to a Lakey in design. I have not had a chance to play a Beechler myself.

I have a Lakey 7*3 and a Jodyjazz Jet 7. The Lakey is bright but more balanced (less extremely bright on top), and has a certain buzzy/whiny character that isn’t bad but is very characteristic. Both have a sort of long wedge baffle but because of other design differences they are strikingly different in sound. Charlie Mariano played a Lakey on later recordings. It has a lot of character, I would say. It’s a bit harder to get a good sound at the very bottom of the range (the bell keys, below D) but pretty easy to play overall.

The Jet is a mouthpiece I like a lot but have sort of mixed feelings about. The bottom end is very full, I would say noticeably more than the Lakey, and through the midrange it has a very good clean sound, but as you get into the high range it has a VERY bright edge. It plays very differently than other pieces I have. I have used a lot of different reeds and am on a Java Red 2.5 which seems to go well with it. It takes some time to get used to. If you like it bright, it’s definitely going to get you there. But it definitely doesn’t hold back.

If you like bright you’re just gonna have to do bright. It’s not the in thing for jazz traditionalists. Personally I think it might be good to hang onto one darker mouthpiece if you plan on doing traditional stuff as well but if you like bright you just have to go bright.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Aquariun. Thank you so much for that great explanation. I honestly think you might have just sold me into going with the JET instead of the Beechler. I mean just the simple fact that out our 4 people here that have reported the exact same difficulty regarding too much resistance in their own personal experiences with the Diamond. That just seems like way to risky. If this was a baseball game, the Beechler is literally batting 0 for 4. Whereas I know that both JUMBO JAVAS and and any JODY JAZZ piece is going to be nearly perfect regarding fit and finish straight outta the box. How often do we hear people getting their Vandorens and or their Jodys Refaced? i can’t remember ever hearing someone who had to ship theirs out to be refaced do to poor manufacturing and quality control.


So I’m already pretty much sold on jetting the Jumbo for my Tenor, as my link has the perfect airy spread sound great for ballads, and softer songs. The Bellite 8 is in my opinion what I would call the perfect all around piece that can adapt to any genre as well as a chameleon changes colors. The only thing the Bellite lacks is exactly what the Jumbo excells at. I believe the super high and long baffle combined with the Jumbos Small chamber, gives a a sound that is perhaps one of the most unique in the whole market. Again, it’s super heard to describe what I hear but I always said that jumbos were bright with an uncanny ability to cut through an overpowering horn section all while retaining a very fat core tone that had an unusual amount of harmonic overtones sprinkled within its natural fat yet somehow still bright base tone. Again, words cannot even begin to explain this properly. But I’m sure a lot of people will agree that the jumbo Java is a very unique mouthpiece that is pretty much one of a kind when it comes to its ability to do so many different things as well as even play extremely quiet and pretty, to brilliant and precise, or it can even easily be shaped towards a Latin/Salsa vibe. for the money, its almost a no brainer now that I’m hearing nothing but negatives regarding my original idea which was leaning towards a small chambered Beechler HR Diamond inlay.

Anyone agree, or better yet object to this idea? id still love to hear everyone elses thoughts on any of the pieces that have been mentioned by myself or others in this thread. Let’s keep it coming peeps lol


cheers everyone

sincerely,
Sean
 

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If possible it would be best to try several pieces. I think WWBW has a mouthpiece trial system, and Jodyjazz has a trial period of 3 weeks.
 

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i own 2 and both play great. one is a 6m and the other a 3s refaced by mojo. the 6m i played lead alto on and the 3s is extremly bright and can handle rock band needs. both are extremly easy to play . the 3s is very much like a lakey in desighn but eaiser to play and control. the 6m is very meyer like in a good way.
 

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I bought one a couple of years ago from WWBW. It was most likely a return as it was somewhat cheap compared to new. It was terrible out of the box, and I mean terrible. The side and tip rails were uneven and way too thick, the finish on the facing was like someone dragged it across 200 grit sandpaper and the facing curve was wrong. It wouldn't play barely at all. After I fixed it up it is nice now and plays freely with a focused and semi-bright sound, probably less bright than originally intended.

I tried a tenor version and it came to me even worse than the alto version I fixed. It was so bad that I sent it back as I wasn't going to waste my time.
 

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I got a White Diamond S5S. The short facing makes the piece play with heightened resistance, and the low notes do not speak so well. I do not care about that, cause it's all about screaming highs with this one. 😁
 

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I had a Beechler Diamond Inlay (alto) for years . . . rarely played it because it was just TOO loud. I recall that it played fine, though.

I finally traded/sold/gave it away (can't recall how I dumped it OR for that matter, how I acquired it). Now that I saw another poster describe the markings, I recall it was maybe an S5S.

I remember that many years ago, Beechler had a shop on Ventura Blvd in the San Fernando Valley (City of Los Angeles) and I visited it a few times. I most likely bought that piece from him directly. I think I still have a soprano piece by him.

I'll caution the OP not to make any decisions based on what others say about mouthpieces, unless money is no object. We are all different when it comes to embouchure and style. One person can play a piece and love it while another could play the same piece and detest it; and that doesn't even consider the differences that happen among different examples of the same model. Mouthpieces are a personal choice. DAVE
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Very well said Dave. And I appreciate you sharing that with me. I guess with that said, and everyone agreeing that it is indeed a very loud and bright mouthpiece, my biggest question is what makes it so loud and bright? Because by the looks of it it seems to have just a simple rollover baffle that you would see on a Meyer. Granted at least by the looks of things it appears that the sidewalls are slanted in words which intern create sort of a quicker route for the air to pass through into the chamber. I guess that’s what some might call a squeezed chamber. I’m not sure if that’s the correct term analogy so I don’t want to say that as if it’s a fact. Another question I have is Super20Dan Mentioned that he had both a 6M as well as a 3S. Does that mean the tip opening was literally a three? That sounds ridiculously small to me. However I know back in the day some companies pieces were numbered differently. For instance I’ve seen some 4* level Aires that in fact measure to about the same as a Meyer six or possibly even larger. Is that correct in assuming that a Beechler 3S Really isn’t nearly as small a tip opening As what one would think ?
 

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yes it was in fact a 3 opening. i got it new really cheap because of the close facing. i sent it off to jon van wie for a reface . i didnot care it was a 3. when i got it back -it was too bright even for rock and roll playing. i stupidly spilled a very harsh cleaning fluid on it and ruined the facing. sent it to mojo and its back playing fine and powerfull. its at least a 4 or 5 opening now. the 6m i have isnt that bright. there is a big diff between the m and s chamber
 

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I don't know what Beechler means by "5S5" or any of his number-letter designators. There is no standard numbering/lettering system in mouthpieces. For tip-openings, one must consult a published chart (or take an actual measurement) to decipher what each maker's system means in actual measurements.

After the tip-opening designator, then comes length-of-lay and chamber size, and in no particular order. One's "3" tip-opening could be the same as another's "5" (or in the case of Selmer's, C, D, E, etc. markings). And then there is the asterisk, which In Selmer's case means slight increases (the measurement between say a D and an E tip) in the tip-opening, but other makers may use an asterisk to mean something else.

Take Meyer's markings . . . I have had alto Meyers in 6S Medium Chamber, 6M Medium chamber, 7M Small Chamber, and 5M Medium Chamber . . . the S and M meaning length-of-lay. The combinations are almost endless and I haven't had the patience to sit down to try to sort out all of the combinations and how each one plays for me. Given the allowable tolerances in manufacturing and such a task boggles my mind.

I concluded long ago that trying to decipher all of the different numbers and letters and combinations of factors (like chamber design, chamber size, length-of-lay, tip-openings, baffle-design, etc. and how they interact with each other) is a subject best left to true experts. I don't understand any of it. What I DO know is when a mouthpiece plays well for me. DAVE
 

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Beechler's scale runs larger by 0.005" than the one for Meyers: Tip Openings

Why are they such screamers despite not having a step baffle?
  • Squeeze throat and small chamber. Most people would say that a small-chamber Meyer sounds brighter than a medium-chambered one.
  • Yes, they "merely" have a long rollover, but at the same time the floor is also much higher compared to your average middle-of-the-road mouthpiece.
  • The short facing gives resistance, so you can blow really hard, and at the same time it accentuates high partials.
This applies to mpc's designated S(number)S. Beechler also offers Diamond Inlay mpc's with medium and large chambers, and longer facings, too.
 

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Beechler's code:
Chamber size S/M/L, then tip opening, then facing length S/L (idk how long their "long" facing actually is - could be more like a medium one?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
That’s great information guys thank you. I sort of came to the conclusion that Albeit just a typical roll over baffle that a lot of the focus and brilliance must have been in part to to the squeeze throat and small chamber. However one thing I did not know which I’m glad you pointed out was that although it’s your typical long roll over baffle, that the floor is still indeed higher than most other rollover baffles thus acting like a higher baffle. I currently play a Beechler Bellite on my tenor and that’s known for having a shorter facing length (how short? That I do not now) But it’s very free blowing in fact I would never label it as resistant at all. However we could be talking apples to oranges in this case. Anyways I can’t lie I do love that super bright laser beem sound That Gerald gets out of his. however I know that doesn’t mean anything. I suspect he’s going to sound fantastic and literally everything. So I guess I’ll leave it at that. But I’m still interested in hearing from others so let’s keep it going thank you guys
 

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The consistency is miles better nowadays if I'm going with the latest offerings that I've tried. I play an S7S and it's amazing how much more dynamic it is than the Vandoren V16 M I played before. It is more difficult to play though. But the potential is great. My favourite tenor player ever, Steve Tavaglione, also plays the beechler bellite on both alto and tenor.

I ordered three different diamond inlays and all of them played great, sealed fantastically and were reed friendly. I chose the one that felt brightest to me, and which also "looked" the best. The chambers are hand made, and one of them didn't look very good. It didn't affect the playability, but I'm picky and would have been bothered by that.
 
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