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Discussion Starter #1
I've currently got a Barone Jazz 8. This has been my main mouthpiece for several years and I love the way it sounds and responds in most circumstances. My only complaint is that it has, for me at least, a loudness threshold where I just can't push it any louder. More and more often at gigs I find I hit this threshold.

I have an Ackerman lost wax link copy, which I bought the same time as the Barone. I hardly play it but everytime I put it on, I'm suprised by how much louder this mouthpiece is. There are times when I use this mouthpiece when I know I'll need this extra volume.

Problem is, I don't really like the sound of the Ackerman all that much. Although it's loud, I cant get the same subtone I can get out of the Barone and I find the Barone to generally be more focussed and much more free blowing. The Ackerman for me sounds ok (just ok, not great) loud -there's something about the sound that doesn't quite do it for me. The Ackerman is definately much brighter than the Barone, but it's for me a too harsh and not rounded enough. I also don't really like the resistance when trying to play soft, hence I like to subtone on the Barone much more (the Ackerman sounds a bit thin for me too).

I know that the Barone New York is supposed to similiar to a link, so I wonder how it compares to the Ackerman, which I understand is a true link copy. Anyone played both? If so how did they compare? I'd be interested in the NY if it has similiar playing characteristics to the Jazz, but is just louder and perhaps a little brighter without loosing the roundess and depth of tone the Jazz has.

Thanks

Tim
 

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If you like your barone jazz why dont you just have it refaced and maybe opened up a little. Refacing helps a lot because most stock pieces usually need some work to get them to play at there very best. This might solve your problem of not getting enough volume out of the piece.
 

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Barones won't need refacing work, that's why. Its not like you're buying a stock Berg..
 

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maestroelite said:
Barones won't need refacing work, that's why. Its not like you're buying a stock Berg..
Agreed. But you know what? That's a thought. Tim, why don't you give Phil a call. Maybe he would modify it for you. Even if not, he's usually willing to give his time freely helping folks out with decisions just like you've got to make.
 

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My guess is that if Phil sees this thread he will reccomend that you buy a Hollywood.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the suggestions thus far.

I don't really want to get work done on the Jazz mouthpiece - I like it the way it is and I worry that it might be ruined for me if I attempt to make it play differently than it does. I still want to use this piece the way it is and on most gigs, I'd just like something with a similiar sound that's louder and perhaps with a bit more cut that I can play on gigs where I'll need the extra volume.

The Hollywood as mentioned above may also be another good option.

Thanks

Tim
 

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Having the Jazz opened up/modified is a far cheaper option than a new Hollywood, but as you said there's no going back. You can't go wrong with Mojo, for this type of work. He would know how to leave the integrity of the facing and baffle dimensions intact while opening the tip and perhaps working the baffle a little if you ask.

The metal Ackermans in my experience are kind of dull mouthpieces, especially when compared to Barones. I don't think any amount of work is going to get that mouthpiece playing as well as your Barone.
 

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You'll always go back to the Jazz as it has the full traditional sound that the tenor was made for. I wouldn't touch it myself. If I'm not mistaken Charles Lloyd uses this piece in addition to Link STM's and I can't find anything about his ability to project and get a beautiful sound out of these pieces.

It's human nature to find an easy way to make something happen, but if you like the sweet sounds that a large chamber piece makes then you gotta work. Forget the projection aspect. I don't remember Joe Henderson ever switching from his Selmer Soloists when he had to play in a higher volume setting. I'd be more concerned with playing it well than playing it loud. I'm not sure what all this obsession with having a loud sound is, your core tone has more to do with how you project than having a buzzsaw mouthpiece that shatters glass.
 

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But shattering glass with your buzzsaw sound seems so much more manly than sitting down and actually doing work...
 

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I don't know to my ears a deep 50's tone on the tenor sounds a lot more manly than a screechy girly tone.
 

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Yeah, I'd recommend a Hollywood when I make some but the big lesson here is NEVER to get your main piece touched. Even if you're not crazy about the piece it's still a reference point. A louder piece usually translates into a brighter piece, it's just the nature of things and facing a mouthpiece won't make it louder. Chambers are what determines a mouthpieces volume, not the facing or opening. Phil
 

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If you like the sound but need more volume, why not get a good microphone and amplifier?
 

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Phil,

"Chambers are what determines a mouthpieces volume, not the facing or opening."

Is it chamber size or design that affects the volume?

I for one would appreciate a mini lecture on the various affects of tip opening, chamber and baffle if you have time. I've read these elsewhere but you always seem to have a little more pertinent knowledge at your fingertips.

Particularely, whart difference does it make in the sound if (all other things remaining equal) you say vary the tip opening from 6 to 8 or even wider. I know it means a different reed, but why would one make that choice?
 

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Many think tip opening is a major factor on volume. Try a few different tip openings of the same design and decide for yourself.
 

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I think it could be if you used the same reed on each opening and had to use a more focused, supported airstream each time.. granted it would take more out of you, but more volume could be perceived. Personally, I play on a .95 opening on tenor and have no issues projecting or with volume. I know others like more open pieces, but I like harder reeds. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy with the resistance it gives as opposed to the open tip(and I used to like a .115!). Plus, it doesn't wear me out. I think like anything here.. YMMV on this issue.
 

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heath said:
If I'm not mistaken Charles Lloyd uses this piece in addition to Link STM's and I can't find anything about his ability to project and get a beautiful sound out of these pieces.
You're mistaken on both counts.

Charles Lloyd plays an old Master Link 4**** .
I've seen him live many times, and he's not playing a Barone or an STM.
 

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When I played a few different Barone tenor pieces I immediately noticed visual defects. The facing did not look very nice on them. Of course, I am used to the quality finishing of Ralph Morgan, so most things look awful anyway.
 

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Tryptykon said:
You're mistaken on both counts.

Charles Lloyd plays an old Master Link 4**** .
I've seen him live many times, and he's not playing a Barone or an STM.
I confirm this. I also bought a recommended DVD of a recent Montreal concert of him (which I attended) and it shows clearly that it's a Master Link. I spoke to him at the end of the concert and he mentioned "I play an old metal Link...".
 
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