Sax on the Web Forum banner

Barone finishes...which one to get!?

11K views 51 replies 24 participants last post by  INTJazz 
#1 ·
I've decided after a long search to invest in a PB Classic Tenor, mainly based on price (wow!) and quality, especially based on some reviews here on sotw.

So here is my question...Phil offers a ton of different finishes for his horns. How are the different sound-wise? Maybe if someone who has played multiple or can well-describe their own horn based on how the finish affects the sound could give some advice here.
There is...
Gold Plated, Silver Plated, Nickel, Bare Brass, Antique Bronze, Honey Gold Lacquer, Vintage Gold Lacquer, Vintage Bare Brass, Copper Plated, and Satin Lacquer.
I know some of these will be similar...but does the sound vary much between gold, silver, copper, nickel, bronze, and plain brass?

I'm trying to spend under $1500 so I was just planning on going with the bare brass, so any comments from anyone who has the PB Classic Bare Brass would be awesome.

Also I'll be playing it with a Vandoren V16 T8 mouthpiece, so if anyone has combined the V16 with their PB horn, any commentary would be appreciated!

Thanks!
 
See less See more
#3 ·
Phil will tell you (and many others around these parts, me included) that material does not matter, plating or otherwise.

I played a Gold Plated Vintage Tenor @ Phil's shop before I bought my mine. My Bare Brass Vintage Tenor plays, sounds, & feels exactly the same.

I played the Classic Tenor as well. It is a phenomenal saxophone. You won't be disappointed if you pick one up.

I love my Bare Brass Barones! :)
 
#4 ·
Yes I figured some people would say the finish has no effect while others would say it does, I've read some threads on here about finishes.

I was just wondering if anyone had experience testing out multiple finishes on the barones. It sounds like I will be satisfied regardless of the finish I get.

Now as far as the mouthpiece...still wondering if anyone has paired their V16 with a barone. I do realize everyone has a different sound and based on how they play and stuff, and my sound with a V16 and barone will be different from someone else's, but I was just wondering if anyone had anything to say about it.

Thanks again!
 
#6 ·
Yes I figured some people would say the finish has no effect while others would say it does, I've read some threads on here about finishes.

I was just wondering if anyone had experience testing out multiple finishes on the barones. It sounds like I will be satisfied regardless of the finish I get.

Now as far as the mouthpiece...still wondering if anyone has paired their V16 with a barone. I do realize everyone has a different sound and based on how they play and stuff, and my sound with a V16 and barone will be different from someone else's, but I was just wondering if anyone had anything to say about it.

Thanks again!
I have a barone classic and I really like it. The V16 didnt really work that great for me tone-wise. The problem was, I think, that my Barone has a very "round" sound. The V16, IMO, also has a "round" sound. The two paired together seemed to exaggerate this round quality, and the tone was lacking focus and a nice core. It sounded very sterile and hollow. I was pretty bummed by this because, at the time, the V16 was the only decent playing mpc I had. So, I didnt play the Barone much the first couple months I had it. I also had an stm and I liked the sound alot better but the piece was kind of a dog and hard to play. I sent it to Phil-tone and when I got it back the horn really came to life. Also got my hands on a Jody Jazz HR and that was nice too. Recently, I got a Jumbo Java here from Modman and Im really digging that too. Of course, your results may vary, but I guess my point is if you dont like the V16 on the barone dont give up. Find the right piece and these horns can really shine. Very rich and complex tone. Good Luck!
 
#7 ·
I guess you already know some finishes require a little more upkeep than others. I have the Barone Vintage Alto dressed in Honey Gold Lacquer, and all it requires is a wipe down every now and then. Looks like new after each wipe down. I am getting a little wear spot on my left thumb rest. Don't know whether from last November to now is unusually fast for a wear spot to show up there or whether it's right on time, but who cares. I'm good with my horn sounding as good or better than those high dollar horns to my left and right. So I agree with Mr. Miller, you should go for the one that's easiest on the eyes.
 
#8 ·
Hello,

I have a Honey Gold lackered Vintage Alto which I bought last November. The lacquer on it is not the best I've seen. It is unevenly applied and pretty thin. It scratches easily and as Ericpd said, mine also shows signs of ware on the left thumb rest. Mind you I am comparing it to my Yamaha YTS 62 tenor and the lacquer on Yamahas is amongst the best there is.

As for the alto itself, there was something that bothered me about it ever since I bought it, until 2 weeks ago when I discovered a leak in the F palm key. After I fixed that the sax was completely transformed. Altissimo became stable and the
sax could be played down to a whisper, thus aiding expressive playing.

As for the finish you choose, I think it depends on your attitude on maintenance of the sax. If you are the type of person who thoroughly cleans and wipes the sax after each use go for the unlacquered finish , otherwise choose a lacquered sax.
 
#11 ·
I would just suggest to think twice before getting a plated horn. They are heavier. It isn't a lot of extra weight but I notice a difference when playing for hours. The Lacquer is just a bit lighter but it feels a lot better around your neck after long practice or gigs.
 
#43 ·
You are a sensitive guy Stormott77... I think you are the only one in the world who can sense those 3-4 grams of gold plate because thats what we are talking about for a tenor and thats just the extra weight from a bare horn. Guessing the laquer weighs a few grams as well....

A gold plated horn stays the same for ever and ever, so for that reason alone I would choose that finish any time. Silver just needs so much attention - almost like a woman - look to the side, and she is gone black on you... :)
 
#13 ·
Good luck, mattsax11. The one thing I think all of us will agree on,... you won't be sorry when you blow your first tune through it! Be-bop on! :rr:
 
#14 ·
This is correct. The horn and mouthpiece need to be matched. Each time you get a new horn you are taking a chance that your mouthpiece will need to be replaced. It's neither good or bad.
 
#16 ·
Guess who got their new Satin Laquer Classic Tenor Delivered just now ?

Me.

The finish is amazing, it looks even better in real life than it does on the photos and the photos it looks incredible. Ill post some pics hopefully over the weekend, as well as put my sound clips up of my Classic Soprano (which i dropped yesterday), and Classic tenor.

The horn blows me away - If you want a great looking horn (that plays equally as good), this really is a finish that blows you away. Well done Phil, i know it was only a recent addition, but its going to be a huge success.
 
#18 ·
Guess who got their new Satin Laquer Classic Tenor Delivered just now ?

Me.

The finish is amazing, it looks even better in real life than it does on the photos and the photos it looks incredible.
Evan

How do you compare the satin vs the antique bronze?
Do you think the satin might be too "boring" for a straight sop? .. i was vacillating between the 2 but decided on the latter. Hope i won't be disappointed!
 
#17 ·
Geez Evan,... how many of these Barone horns do you have? LOL! Can I have one? Naah,... just kidding. Congrats! Your take on the new Satin Finish is interesting. It'll be nice to see some non-studio pics of the horn. I find the studio shots are best for showing detail, but the home grown pics are best for pulling out the flesh tones of the horn. Again,... congrats!
 
#19 ·
mattsax11 --

Just my experience.

Came back to sax playing after about 28 years. Spent $1800 on a "no-name" sax, probably a Taiwan sax. Really a good horn.

I wanted something a bit better for dance band. Phil was recommended. I contacted him about a gold-plated alto. He got back and recommended the gold lacquer. I have not looked back! And, it was less $$ than the first one I bought.

I purchased the vintage gold lacquered model. It stands up to the Selmers in the community band and is sometime above the lead Cannonball in the dance band.

You cannot go wrong. Listen to Phil.

However, I use a Jody Jazz DVNY in the dance band. Great mpc.
 
#20 ·
I think I'm gonna go with the Satin Lacquer Classic. It looks great and of course Evan just said...it plays just as great. And arobi...I just tried my friend's DVNY the other day it it did sound fantastic. Nice big dark sound (I was playing on his silver Yamaha 82z). Sadly enough...I will not have the $600 it calls for after buying a tenor, even with Phil's incredibly low prices. First of all I've gotta see how I like it with the V16 and if it's not what I'm looking for then I'll just keep messing around with different stuff. I attend a university 15 minutes from the Junkdude store and he's got a ton of different pieces. Everyone's got me all excited now! Hopefully I can order it next week...I don't know if I can wait any longer...
 
#23 ·
Phil - Thats the plan today. I had planned to yesterday, but i had a gig at Cafe Culture and I played the VGL Tenor with the Hollywood. WHen I got home from the gig I had that mouthpice out making sure the ligature fits and it does. its next to me now - I am having breakfast (or brunch) and then I will let it loose.
 
#26 ·
It's solid copper and only one of two, maybe three in the world. I may make some more but copper is very difficult to machine and since I know that the material doesn't make any diffference I don't see any reason to do it other than marketing but I suppose that that's a good reason. Some people think that the material makes a difference and while I know it doesn't maybe the fact that a person thinking that it matters causes it to make a difference. I've done so many blindfold tests and when a player is blindfolded they never know what they're playing and if I did go ahead and make them out of other materials I'd feel dishonest is doing it. I made a number of mouthpieces out of sterling silver and I liked the idea of it. It was a beautiful metal and was very easy to work with since it was so soft and I'd like to do it again but now that I'm maching them from solid bar there would be a lot of chips left over so that would mean I'd have to sell them back to the people that sold the bars to me and it would be expensive and a lot of trouble. Phil Barone
 
#28 ·
Phil-I know what you think about the finish on your horns but what about the neck finish and materials? Copper vs Silver plated etc? What are the basic sonic differences? Is a copper neck generally brighter and more free blowing ?

R
I think the general, though HEAVILY debated opinion here is that material doesn't change the sound at all. I agree that it may not change the sound to the listener, but as the player, I can definitely feel the differences and hear different things as I play.

I have four necks for my Cannonball Raven tenor: 2 regular (iced black nick + iced silver plate), and 2 fatnecks (iced black nick and unlacquered). I sat in a room with the bass player in my group and my wife blindfolded both of us. She set-up my sax with a random neck and the same mouthpiece/ reed 8 times (each neck twice) and handed it to me. I played the exact same thing 8 times as closely as possible each time. They were recorded and labeled tracks 1-8. Right after each trial, I said which neck I thought I was playing and my wife recorded my answer, as well as the correct answer...I was 8 for 8 on this test.

Then we listened to the tracks in random non-repeated order:

Ben (bass player) was just listening for differences in sound, and decided that four tracks sounded "more present" to him, and more like my tone with the group. The four he picked were the two fatnecks.

I also selected the four fatneck takes correctly, and preferred the sound to the other four. At first listen (one time through), that was pretty good.

We then took a closer listen to each four track grouping individually. I have to say that neither of us could separate them any further than this.

So, two different styles of necks in two different finishes, and we couldn't tell the difference. To me, this says three things:

1. There is a definitely a difference (good in our opinion) between the Cannonball fatneck and regular neck.

2. Hooray for the consistency between necks of the same style on the part of Cannonball.

3. The difference is truly felt by the player. I play the unlacquered fatneck because I love the feel of it. In my opinion it is more responsive and I like what I hear better when playing it.
 
#34 ·
So Mr. Barone, how does your included custom necks add to the sound quality of our horns. I remember when my Dad and I were drooling over your website, it said that your horns came with your custom mpc and necks. I understand and can now appreciate the mpc's, but I'm a little confused on the neck stuff. The necks we get when we buy your horns, are they the same ones you have on sale individually? Can you spend a few words on what makes them better than the normal necks coming with other horns with similar Taiwanese DNA, like P. Mariats and Antiquas? This is interesting reading here.
 
#35 ·
I don't know how to compare them to other necks because I haven't seen my competitors but my necks have larger bores than what you'd get if I were to supply it with the neck that I buy the horn with. A larger bore gives you a darker sound, a more even register and fatter high notes. The entire register is bigger but it effects the upper register more. The only drawback to them is if you don't play the right mouthpiece for the right music the horn could end up sounding too dark. Sometimes I see one of my horns on eBay and I'm certain it's because the customer didn't match the right mouthpiece with the horn because the horns themselves deliver but the player really has to know how to play and what I mean by that it that they have to know how to fill the horn up with air and it's crucial that they put the right mouthpiece on there. The mouthpiece may be more important than anything in fact.

Eric, if you don't mind me saying, I see you spend a lot of time on here and I think you'd do yourself a favor by spending a little less time thinking about gear and more time in the shed. You're thirteen, right? I'm only saying this because I made the mistake of spending too much time with gear and, well, I actually practiced a lot but I wish I had spent less time with gear and just practiced because I found that for the most part by practicing I could transcend my equipiment. Phil Barone
 
#39 ·
Man I didn't think my post about Phil's finishes would turn into such an informational thread! But I guess that's how things go here on sotw...

And Phil sure is right about not worryin about the gear and worrying more about practicing. And I promise I'll be ordering that tenor classic soon! Then I can get in the shed like I should, and like we all should.
 
#41 ·
We have 3 of Phil's horns (I say "we" because I bought them and my son plays them): a curved soprano, an alto and a baritone. The Honey Gold is beautiful. Actually, even the standard gold lacquer has a darker tint that say a Yamaha, and it's very nice too. But, for my taste, the honey gold has just enough vintage look to make it look like a museum piece that can be played. If he'd sell one of his tenors, we'd get a tenor too. So far, all sound great. My only complaint is that Phil didn't send Miss September to deliver it like he promised ;)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top