Im in the marching band in high school and my lips been giving out alot when i start to play higher notes.The range i had is going down and my tone is getting worst,I also get this ring on my lip after playing.I also have braces.Any advise and help you have for me please let me know,thank you.
Baritone horn help please
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The dudes over at trumpet herald would probably be of more help to you than SOTW members, unless I'm mistaken and you're not talking about the Brass instrument. If you mean the Bari sax, maybe a nice well padded harness would help with all the jostling around, or you could try (with a knowledgeable person nearby) experimenting with different embouchures (i.e. trying for less pressure to help stop biting on the mouthpiece). If you mean the baritone horn, that might be a little more tricky. I play trumpet with braces, and I used to have a lot of trouble with my lips shredding and using way too much pressure. I guess my main advice for brass troubles is LOTS of long tones every day. I hope this helps, and again, for information on brass playing problems TH is great
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My son had exactly the same problem on Euphonium (fancy name for the baritone horn). When he had the braces removed, his range had shrunk and his embouchure had gone bad - possibly from flinching every time it hurt. The solution (mind you, after the braces had been removed) was not obvious: He was told to get a much larger mouthpiece and practice playing tuba parts (pedal tones). After three months of this his range was back.
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'Ring around the lip' is very common among brass players. My daughter is a trumpet player and she had one after every marching band practice and performance.
What she used to do to improve her range and gain consistancy in hitting the high stuff was lip slurs and a long tone with the focus on tone quality.
For example: First line F (1-4 counts) to middle line B and hold. Middle line B (1-4 counts) to top line F and hold. Back down to first space E and hold. I think you can see the pattern.
As a freshman she would practice this exercise while doing the roll step around her room.
Thousands of kids play with braces. You can get those little guards that slip over the brackets to help protect your lips, or you can work on strengthening your embouchure so that you don't push the mouthpiece into your face quite so hard.
For marching band you need chops of steel. I would strongly suggest going with the second option if at all possible.
What she used to do to improve her range and gain consistancy in hitting the high stuff was lip slurs and a long tone with the focus on tone quality.
For example: First line F (1-4 counts) to middle line B and hold. Middle line B (1-4 counts) to top line F and hold. Back down to first space E and hold. I think you can see the pattern.
As a freshman she would practice this exercise while doing the roll step around her room.
Thousands of kids play with braces. You can get those little guards that slip over the brackets to help protect your lips, or you can work on strengthening your embouchure so that you don't push the mouthpiece into your face quite so hard.
For marching band you need chops of steel. I would strongly suggest going with the second option if at all possible.
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Sounds like your embochure is still developing to the brass winds. You need to work and spend good time on long tones, particularly on the lower partials and into th pedal tones, as well as lip slurs from high to low etc. Give your lips time to finish adjusting.
I think a brass player should absolutely avoid to get a "ring around the lip". While this can be (and in practise must) temporarily accepted the common rule is that no any rings allowed. This is caused an over pressure of mouthpiece to lips and can seriously deteriote your embouchure if this is routinely allowed. To avoid this ring -effect just avoid too much pressure to lips and when you begin to feel tired: stop playing and keep a good pause. This is usually some kind of "state-of-art" because in concerts you ofcourse cannot just stop. But lips must be used sparingly when tireing is feeled.
While there are many opinions how much mouthpiece pressure is allowed I personally favor so called "non-pressure embouchure". Ofcourse some pressure is needed but a minimal one. At first it may be difficult to play but in time playing will be much more free and easier - and lips are kept healthy.
So I think that "ring around the lip" must be avoided in so absolute way as ever possible.
:bass::line0::treble::line6:
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Mikko, You need to watch a few youTube videos of High School/College marching band shows.
While the 'no pressure' embouchure is great for the concert setting, it doesn't always lend itself well to the marching field.
While a bit more pressure than usual is required to maintain proper playing position causing a temporary ring, I highly doubt that any of these players is shoving the horn into their face hard enough to do any permenant damage to the lips.
Or... Take your trumpet/euphonium/tuba/t-bone for a brisk march down the street and back a couple of times. I bet you'll have a healthy case of 'Ring around the lip".
While the 'no pressure' embouchure is great for the concert setting, it doesn't always lend itself well to the marching field.
While a bit more pressure than usual is required to maintain proper playing position causing a temporary ring, I highly doubt that any of these players is shoving the horn into their face hard enough to do any permenant damage to the lips.
Or... Take your trumpet/euphonium/tuba/t-bone for a brisk march down the street and back a couple of times. I bet you'll have a healthy case of 'Ring around the lip".
Yes, bandmommy, I completely agree. I know the situation - also played a little marching / show music and sure had a ring. I just put my opinion and meant that if I daily and always had that ring effect it would hurt me, but if e.g. once in week that would be ok and typical. I understand what you wrote and think you described very nicely the situation.
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I never had braces. But I started playing the trombone at age 10 years. Many things you mention are common to all and will be overcome by most students with practice. Evidently some people can play with braces. But I would take the purist approach and say no student should try to play a wind instrument with braces. You might learn but you would most likely develop bad habits instead of the good habits you should be developing. You would be better off waiting until the braces can be removed.
I also think playing any instrument except drums or bells in a marching band is wrong and should be avoided. I avoided it myself in high school by playing trombone in the orchestra. Yes it was a section of 1 but I learned to blend with other bass instruments. I studied trombone under the first trombonist of the Minneapolis Symphony in the early 1960's and learned that I had to start by learning how to play steady long tones. You'll never do that while marching!
I also think playing any instrument except drums or bells in a marching band is wrong and should be avoided. I avoided it myself in high school by playing trombone in the orchestra. Yes it was a section of 1 but I learned to blend with other bass instruments. I studied trombone under the first trombonist of the Minneapolis Symphony in the early 1960's and learned that I had to start by learning how to play steady long tones. You'll never do that while marching!
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