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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
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Therein lies my conundrum!
Everything I have read is that this is a really good bari.
But if I have to drop another $500-700 into this one, would I be better served to buy another (IN PERSON or reputable seller) for $2400-2600?

Anyway, I doubt the seller would be willing to refund what it would take to get this one in (real) playing condition.
Probably an 'all or nothing' situation.

As far as the Taishan......jury is still out, but there are other options in the used market for a Low-A bari for $2000 and under IF the decision is in my favor.
IMHO....if you can talk the seller into a partial refund, take the $400-500 you can get back from him and go get the horn repaired. It will still end up a pretty good deal even if repairs cost $600.

You paid $1900, got $450 back...so you paid $1450 for the horn; then invested $600 in repair. So in the end, you have a good, repaired, well-playing Yama Low A Baritone for under $2100.

That is by no means a bad deal. Just a bit of a hassle.

(Yup, you can send it back and fort to Hornfixer and he will do the repair for $300. But then tack on $80 shipping in each direction....and honestly you are better off finding a local tech even if they charge $600).

Oftentimes a partial refund is much easier for even a crooked seller to swallow.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2007-
alto: 82Zii/Medusa/Supreme, tenor: Medusa, bari: b-901, sop, sc-990
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Send it back! Please.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
HF, he said he was not going to refund, but it is now in the hands of Paypal.
If they decide in my favor, that the sax was not as described then I get a refund.
I am not sure how they would handle if the sellers bank account is empty, but I am getting ahead of myself.
It really is too bad I cannot get the sax to you, at $300 it would be a bargain.....I doubt anyone could come close to touching that.
But the shipping there & back would negate any savings on work.

So far the estimates are:
hornfixer: $300-$1200 ("You could probably find a shop that would do it for $1200")
JayePDX: $400-700

I think realistically the fixes would probably be around $600.....sound about right?
I also think repairs in general are more expensive in certain areas of the country based on overhead......and So Cal is not cheap.

____________

Updating to say I did not see page 2 and agree whole-heartly with JayePDX.....
And if I said I sent the sax back to the seller that was my mistake. I still have the sax awaiting Paypal's decision.
Since the seller did not want to deal with me I am presuming that Paypal can either side with the seller (I get stuck with the sax as-is) or me (refund).
But I have an open mind.
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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The $600 number depends on a lot of unknowns as to hidden collateral damage.

Send it back. There's a lot of these out there, and you don't need to settle on this one.
 

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Paypal, if they decide in your (buyer's) favor, will automatically debit his (seller's) account $1900. So, basically, his account balance will now be -$1900.

You get refunded immediately....you do not have to wait for him to get $ into his account.

This basically means that he cannot pay for anything using his PayPal account until it is back to zero balance. They will not let him pay for anything until the negative balance is wiped away.
It also means, any subsequent sales he makes....that $ goes straight to reducing the negative balance (i.e. he cannot transfer any money out of his PP account and to his bank). So if he sells something for $500...as soon as that $500 gets to his Paypal acct...it's untouchable and untransferable.

It just would make his acct. balance = -$1400 now.

It was very, very, very foolish of him not to negotiate a partial refund. Really, really foolish. The fact alone that the description does NOT state "bellbrace is impacted into body tube" is enough to doom his entire position.

If I were you, Augie, I would call PayPal and speak to a service rep regarding the case (if you haven't already). Just ask them over the phone whether there is any other information you can provide which would be favorable to your position (although quite honestly it is a pretty strong position to begin with).

That guy really is screwing himself. I would be shocked if this didn't go your way.
 

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Oh No!! Don't do it.
Did you ask the guy for some money back for repairs?
Keep the Yamaha. The repairs are minor.
Just my opinion.

Go talk to Bruce.
Just curious horn fixer how come you hate Tai Shan so much ??? ..some of us have been very pleased with their horns.

Amanda's dad I feel yer pain those orig pics were misleading as to the true condition of the yama..I hope you'll be OK in this, PayPal sounds like it may help you.I'll keep my fingers crossed for you anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
..................Amanda's dad I feel yer pain those orig pics were misleading as to the true condition of the yama..I hope you'll be OK in this, PayPal sounds like it may help you.I'll keep my fingers crossed for you anyway.
Thanks CashSax. Though I feel pretty good about my chances, you just never know until the decision is made.
 

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Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
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I think that with all the physical damage on this sax, there is bound to be a whole heap of mechanical issues affecting pad sealing and reliability as well.

Because they are so easy to damage, I would EXPECT a second hand bari to have a heap of issues unless you have excellent evidence otherwise.
Hence a fair bit ot buyer beware involved here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I think that with all the physical damage on this sax, there is bound to be a whole heap of mechanical issues affecting pad sealing and reliability as well.
Gordon, the pads on the main body don't look bad, the pads up top on the loop don't exhibit any real 'seating'.

Because they are so easy to damage, I would EXPECT a second hand bari to have a heap of issues unless you have excellent evidence otherwise.
Hence a fair bit ot buyer beware involved here.
Somewhat agree.
I expected there would be some damage, the few told to me, and possibly (probably) a few more minor dings here and there.
And the price reflected what I thought I was buying, a playing sax that had minor dents and a brace the needed to be reattached.
I would have the brace reattached and Amanda would a sax she could play on for a few months and later determine if the dents & dings needed to be removed.

Anyway, any estimate on the cost to repair if it goes that way?
 

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I would just wait for your claim to be decided by Ebay. You might get an estimate in writing from your tech on letterhead, etc. and present that with your claim.
The purchase is covered with Buyer Protection from Ebay and Paypal. I think they will also pay for return shipping.
If it was me, just the aggravation alone would sour me on keeping the horn even if the seller offered some $$ for repairs (which I doubt he will do.)
 

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I would just wait for your claim to be decided by Ebay. You might get an estimate in writing from your tech on letterhead, etc. and present that with your claim.
The purchase is covered with Buyer Protection from Ebay and Paypal. I think they will also pay for return shipping.
If it was me, just the aggravation alone would sour me on keeping the horn even if the seller offered some $$ for repairs (which I doubt he will do.)
FWIW, the horn was not purchased on eBay though it was paid for using PayPal. Buyer protection from PayPal alone is apt to have to meet a higher standard of proof from the purchaser since the normal "listing with condition representation to purchaser's acceptance and condition then" chain is a lot murkier.
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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My experience in getting bari's shipped to me from eBay sellers is that about 40% of the time it will arrive in the condition I was expecting.

The last bari I bought had a similar amount of damage on it, and it was $1360 to repair it back to the condition it was in at the time of sale -- which FedEx paid. I went further, had all of the rest of the dents removed and a pants guard constructed, and that grand total was $1900 -- in repairs to a $2000 horn. I was also without the instrument for just under 3 months after I paid for it.

To get this damage repaired, I had to take it to a tech for a written damage estimate, and help the seller with his FedEx claim with letters from the tech and myself, save the shipping materials, and had to take numerous photos of the damage for FedEx to evaluate against the photos the seller provided.

Unlike that Buescher 139, there's nothing particularly special or hard to find about a YBS-52 that would make me go through that again. I would just get another one. Send it back and let the seller deal with it.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2016
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I think you are gonna win this dispute.

have you spoken to a dispute service agent at PayPal ?

It might behoove you to take it somewhere and get a written estimate of repairs. This then can be uploaded to your PayPal case file and it becomes part of the review process.
 
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