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Discussion Starter #1
Hoping you guys can help. I have a Taiwanese import bari, Selmer copy. The clamp for the curl is cracked in half and obviously not doing it's job. The keywork and brace are holding it and it plays, but I obviously need to find a replacement clamp. Closest I've found is this guy, but without any measurements from them I don't have a clue if it will fit. Am I better off just trying to braze it back to itself?
https://www.ferreestoolsinc.com/products/SP55045?variant=971095568
 

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TENOR, soprano, alto, baritone
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The Selmer band might not fit. Is this your horn or are you working on it? You have to take the upper loop apart to install a new band or the brazed one. Seems to me the thing to do is to braze the band and re-use it. You have to take the loop apart to put a new or repaired one on anyway. I might also be tempted to solder that joint together then slip the repaired band into place and tighten it. You'll have to do some cosmetic work to the band after brazing.
 

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Distinguished Technician & SOTW Columnist. RIP, Yo
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Braze it, unless you can totally check dimensions of a replacement.
"... Am I better off just trying to braze it back to itself?."
Only if you are used to silver-brazing (i.e. hard soldering) and the accompanying soft soldering (with flame). Otherwise seek a technician.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
my personal horn
conveniently I have a full maintenance shop at work that is very familiar with silver soldering so I'll just have them do it. Don't really care about cosmetics on the band itself, especially on the bari it's well hidden.

Loop is going to come off to resolder it regardless of what I end up doing. Like you said, it has to come apart anyway, but may as well soft solder on the way back in. Takes 2 minutes and minimizes chance of leaks. We have air torches at work for cleaning up circuit boards so that will make quick work of getting that joint sorted out.

Thanks gents!
 

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TENOR, soprano, alto, baritone
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Sounds like a plan! I wouldn't mind having access to a shop like that.
 

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I just realized where you were. I used to play in a disco club there in the '70s called 'Amvets'. They had an ultra-loud sound system above the dance floor for recorded music. One night while the band was on break they were really cranking it and one of the big speaker enclosures blew up/fell apart.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Sounds like a plan! I wouldn't mind having access to a shop like that.
perks of having maintenance report to you. Full machine shop, full electronics shop. It's immensely convenient. Will update when it's done
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Got the ring brazed at work, but upon further inspection and a discussion with Matt Stohrer, since the joint needed to be soldered, the clamp wasn't going to get back on there. Decided that the local techs for $30 were worth getting a better joint or at least prettier joint than I could since it would be exposed. Took it there disassembled and since I didn't really know the guy other than having played a couple gigs with him he was thoroughly elated albeit slightly perplexed. Took about half an hour since he decided to move the brace a hair to get it to be more solid. Just got it back together and happy days.
Since this is on a cheap horn, there are still opportunities to get it playing better. Some tonehole leveling in the upper stack has gone on and made a huge difference, but the low D is still a hair stuffy so need to check out some key heights on the low C. Playing very well though so I'm quite happy to have it back






 

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you put the ring on before soft soldering, That joint doesn't look very good. Sloppy and uneven. Looks very amateurish. Good news is you could still take it back apart and fix it properly. With the ring back on.
 

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"...since the joint needed to be soldered, the clamp wasn't going to get back on there...."
You can expand the joint by:
- Machining on a lathe, or
- Grinding some metal out, say with a Dremel, or
- Put it over a steel mandrel and beat the outside with a hammer that is softer than brass. That is how finger rings are expanded.
 

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True, but what is the point of putting a ring back o (the job of which is to compression-hold the joint) if the joint is now soldered ? No structural/functional purpose to put the ring on now.

Yes, I have seen better looking solder jobs. Also worse.

If it's just a player, and aesthetics aren't that big a deal, seems to me the job is done providing the solder flowed around entire joint and created a good seal.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
you put the ring on before soft soldering, That joint doesn't look very good. Sloppy and uneven. Looks very amateurish. Good news is you could still take it back apart and fix it properly. With the ring back on.
there is not enough clearance between the posts to put the ring on. If I wanted to put the ring on in addition to the solder, then I would have to take a post off. The clamp fits, but since there is a post immediately below and above the joint, there is no room to do both.

As said above, clamp is non-functional anymore since the joint is soldered and is not present on my MKVI which has the clamp on the other side of the curl. I suspect the post placement is the reason that Selmer soldered the curl to the body and put the clamp on the top of the curl to the rest of the pigtail.

Since the horn was lacquered all the way up to the top of the body, the tech was trying to be careful how much lacquer he took off in order to get the solder to hold. Said he could have gotten it looking cleaner if he took more time but since all of the band instruments were coming in from all the schools *I think they said the backlog right now was about 300 horns and I believe it from the pile of cases I saw*, but since this horn is not worth a ton of money I just cared about it sealing. It seals well now when I put a bore scope up into the curl before I put the keys back on the solder flowed cleanly around the joint.
 

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there is not enough clearance between the posts to put the ring on. If I wanted to put the ring on in addition to the solder, then I would have to take a post off. The clamp fits, but since there is a post immediately below and above the joint, there is no room to do both.

As said above, clamp is non-functional anymore since the joint is soldered and is not present on my MKVI which has the clamp on the other side of the curl. I suspect the post placement is the reason that Selmer soldered the curl to the body and put the clamp on the top of the curl to the rest of the pigtail.

Since the horn was lacquered all the way up to the top of the body, the tech was trying to be careful how much lacquer he took off in order to get the solder to hold. Said he could have gotten it looking cleaner if he took more time but since all of the band instruments were coming in from all the schools *I think they said the backlog right now was about 300 horns and I believe it from the pile of cases I saw*, but since this horn is not worth a ton of money I just cared about it sealing. It seals well now when I put a bore scope up into the curl before I put the keys back on the solder flowed cleanly around the joint.
Looks matter, they aren't everything but they matter. The ring also usually offers some reinforcement, not j Yes the post is below it, but most rings can straddle that post while you are soldering. Maybe not yours, but usually is can.

From whats in the picture it doesn't look like the lacquer burns easily.
Why are you even soldering in the first place? A good quality industrial epoxy would have done the job perfectly. Since it is what it is now, and you say that the ring won't fit on there, I would still clean up that joint so that it doesn't look like that. Looks very poor, and I would worry about leaks, at least from what I can see in the pic. I like to see a consistent line of solder that sits in, not on top of the joint all the way around with no gaps where the two parts meet. There should be no dark flux pockets. In the picture it looks like that there are pockets. That may or may not be an issue as far as leaks go, probably isn't, but when it's done properly there is no question. Hope it all works out for you.

Totally unrelated, but if you already have a VI, why did you get this horn? No disrespect intended, just curious.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I've had this horn since 2005 ish so I've had it for quite a while. My VI is a Bb as well which is incompatible with most of what I'm playing right now. It's nice to have a horn like that for outdoor gigs, pit orchestras, etc. We are currently in outdoor concert season so I would rather not take a really high end horn out. Industrial epoxy probably would have worked, but the solder gives me more warm fuzzies.
I'll probably take the air torch out at work one day this week and see if I can have my electronics guys clean it up or have the tech take some more time once they get a bit less busy. Not my normal tech as I said above, and I may have them clean it up later whenever I get back to Raleigh, but for now I need the horn on Tuesday and it seals so it's low ish priority.

Thanks for the feedback though.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Low A is nice to have.
we did a "march around the world" concert a few weeks ago. I played many dozens of them. The ones I played that weren't written were because the marches were old enough that the Low A wasn't a thing and the actual bass line would have called for them. It's basically a requirement these days unless you are doing combo or solo work
 

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I mostly play bars, small and medium venues. But thats all soul/funk/rock/pop/blues etc...on tenor. The only time I play bari anymore is when I am fixing them. Use to play jazz about 35 years ago though and even then low A was awesome to have, and in at least half the charts.
 

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I would not have soldered that. Soldering so close to soldered post mounts without the mounts falling off is a lot easier IMO that un-soldering without them falling off.
So IMO you have set it up to be more troublesome for a future technician should that joint need to come apart again. It is easier to get epoxy to part.
 
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