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Discussion Starter #1
I purchased a King Tempo low A bari and it get a bit of damage to the last section of the crook with the receiver forthe neck tenon. My local shop did a quick bend to allow me to do some play testing and it’s going back tomorrow for the actual repairs.

Despite the out of round portion of the crook the horn plays well to bottom with a big warm sound. Key work needs no swedging and pads are all in great shape. There’s a warble on low B but that’s the extent of the playing issues. But the horn is very flat on a modern Link STM with a 6 opening.

Could the geometry issue of the crook so close to the neck be affecting intonation? I like Links for Big band bari for the combination of warmth and projectionist has. Looking for a warmer/darker mouthpiece for small group or concert band work after my finances recover.

Thanks everyone.


Here’s a view of the crook in bent condition.

View attachment 231162


And another showing how far the upper octave mechanism is out of alignment.

View attachment 231164
 

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It would be astounding a sax in a condition as visually indicated by the photos would be in good mechanical order.

I recommend removing the crook and having it reshaped, not a small undertaking for anyone

Steve
 

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Top bow assembly needs removing and reshaping as Simso said. I have a similar Bari (Keilwerth/D&J) stencil, which 'went' in the same place due to shipping. I fixed it up and did a lot of other work to it. It's a lovely horn and very personal to me now..... tonewise? Conn 12 M without the 'boom'! Keywork is modern and light, great Baris with some work -as most have been abused. Milandro on here has had some very nice examples.
BTW I'm intrigued that it plays at all with the pad on the low octave pip not seating........... by at least half an inch wow!...................
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So neither of you read my post, you just looked at the images.

If you had you’d have seen:
“My local shop did a quick bend to allow me to do some play testing” and “it’s going back tomorrow for the actual repairs.”

And yes, the plan is to remove the crook, correct the geometry and reattach it.

So the question still remains is the issue with the crook not having its correct geometry causing the horn to play very flat?
 

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Generally I figure dents and dings don't have a big effect but in that case it looks like the thing's down to something like half its original diameter. I do believe it could very well be causing your problem. Take another horn and stick a big wad of something inside the neck tenon (similar kind of location) to obstruct half the bore diameter and I think it will make it play flat. That's what you do to get a low A on a low Bb baritone, stick your foot in the bell. So try my experiment with something like a wad of masking tape and see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I’m dropping it off after work today. A large businessoffice and saxophones aren’t generally considered compatible.

I was curious as I haven’t had an experience with a horn before. And if it’s goingto be perpetually flat pitch wise I have to seriously reconsider my mouthpiece choice.
 

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My recent experience with major dent removal/ straightening leads me to think that you should reassess the situation after the tube is repaired. I had some odd intonation and voicing issues that amazingly went away when I had the bow of my tenor beaten back into shape.
Even the higher notes and altissimo are improved. There is a good chance that your horn will have a whole different character after repair, is all I'm saying.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Saxoclese:

There’s a long cork on the neck and the shaft of the mouthpiece was past the end of the cork. I didn’t measure the length of the cork but ballpark it at 4-5”. Even then the horn was flat though not as noticeable.

I’m going to reassess the intonation when I get it back.

The tone was gorgeous though. Thick, rich and warm.
 

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So neither of you read my post, you just looked at the images.

If you had you’d have seen:
“My local shop did a quick bend to allow me to do some play testing” and “it’s going back tomorrow for the actual repairs.”

And yes, the plan is to remove the crook, correct the geometry and reattach it.

So the question still remains is the issue with the crook not having its correct geometry causing the horn to play very flat?
Bit of a rude reply and assumption made on your part, my reply was to help, so yes i did read all of your post, many reasons exist why it plays flat, including the player.

It is pointless trying to identify an intonation issue with a crook that is damaged, yes i noted that you said you had it semi straightened, but without photos showing what it looks like on the test play its all speculation.

If you want, you tell us what you think the problem is rather than ask us what the problem could be so we can all just nod out heads and say yes without seeing the instrument or hearing it, your right the problem is xx.

Steve
 

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I hope you got the horn for hella cheap, John. Because that sorta damage is the kind of damage which makes prospective buyers head for the hills. And makes a lotta techs shake their head. A horn which took a shot (or multiple shots) which caused that, likely has issues elsewhere.

I hope the sax was described as having a condition that dramatic. If not, you have solid ground to request a partial refund (unless of course you purchased it in person).

I am, too, surprised to hear it plays...just judging from the condition of the finish...that sax has been left in a bad, neglectful environment for some time.

Of course do have your tech give her a complete chem bath (body I guess since it doesn't sound like you intend to repad her). For your own health sake if not for aesthetics.

To your question: my second BigHorn was a pretty nice Noblet/Beaugnier Low Bb. Although by no means alarming in appearance, it had a fair amount of quasi-significant dents on the upper bow and crook, a little twist like yours as well albeit nothing nearly as dramatic. The horn played pretty well....it went sharp in the upper octaves and here and there there was a 15-20 cents variance from note to note...with some exhaustive mouthpiece matching it became lippable. Playable. I loved the horn. I took it to one if my techs (this was before I started getting heavy into repairs and reselling) and best he could he went thru the usual list of suspects to try to bring the intonation into better parameters given my relatively limited. Only moderately successful.

Around 6 months later, I had saved the $ to have him take apart the bow/crook and get everything back into nice geometry. He did only that scope of work: disassemble, remove dents and twist, reassemble; replace the high F pad; tweak octave key to seal correctly. I was expecting that once I got the sax back, intonation issues would be gone. Turned out the opposite was true. It was worse. My tech and I pondered this a bit and he suggested he re-regulate all the keywork from scratch (pads were sealing fine). So I let him.

Turns out the horn had had so many tweaks and shimmies done to it over time, probably by multiple techs....to try to keep the intonation somewhat feasible, that such multiple 'regulation band aids', once the upper bow was nice and in-form again, were actually seriously messing with the intonation. Once my guy re-set everything, her intonation was right in the pocket.

So, yeah....intonation will likely improve. BUT your tech may also have to give the keyheights another run-through.

Good luck.

 

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Discussion Starter #12
Jaye:

We’re splitting the costs, and I’m happy with that. The rest of the horn checked out as being ok. The seller had the UPS Store pack and given that the box shows no signs of abuse I think it’s conceivable the packing company did this.

It was a very good price and I’m hoping to get it back before I go on a business trip.
 

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It's the tone of your responses. '... including the player... so we can all just nod our heads...' Lighten up. We're not curing cancer here. He just asked for an opinion, not a diagnosis.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I’ll get the horn back Friday. I’m on a business trip and don’t get back until late tomorrow (Thursday).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It's back and the last crook has been repaired, as has a crack, tone hole alignment and resolder on low Eb.

With the geometry restored it no longer plays extremely flat and the next cork has between 1/8 and 1/4" visible.

Before repairs, the modern link had to push all the way up the shank ring to be somewhere in the neighborhood of in tune.



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