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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi. I'm new to the forum and I'm looking for a new bari sax. I've been playing on the schools jupiter jbs593 for almost 2 years now. (they gave it to me new as an upgrade from the older jupiter horn I played on, which was an upgrade from the bundy ii that I played throughout middle school.) But it's only been 2 years and the horn is breaking everywhere and the lacquer is tarnishing all over the place. I'm looking for something with a warm and fat/heavy sound. I was thinking about the cannonball big bell stone series brute. Also, do any go you guys know if the brute finish would last longer than others?
 

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Welcome to SOTW.

Jupiter saxophones of production between the ’80 of last century and the turn of the century, were known for having bad lacquer and their basic models were also not particularly well made.

However , after that even the most basic of their baritones has become a much better horn that it was before.

If you like the Cannonball brute bariton , you will spend a huge amount of money to buy one new. The finish, won’t hold as well as a lacquered saxophone but that is the price you pay for the looks.

Personally I wouldn’t buy a new Cannonball saxophone but a secondhand one since they tend to be hit ( as all new saxophones are by gigantic depreciation), but you might not be able to find the exact model that you want when you want it.

Frankly speaking, whatever you buy you will be better off buying a secondhand one.

Do consider a used Yanagisawa or Yamaha baritone. They are modernly keyed and very robustly made, will hold their value much better than a new Cannonball and probably work better.

Good luck!

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/search.php?searchid=20585832
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Welcome to SOTW.

Jupiter saxophones of production between the ’80 of last century and the turn of the century, were known for having bad lacquer and their basic models were also not particularly well made.

However , after that even the most basic of their baritones has become a much better horn that it was before.

If you like the Cannonball brute bariton , you will spend a huge amount of money to buy one new. The finish, won’t hold as well as a lacquered saxophone but that is the price you pay for the looks.

Personally I wouldn’t buy a new Cannonball saxophone but a secondhand one since they tend to be hit ( as all new saxophones are by gigantic depreciation), but you might not be able to find the exact model that you want when you want it.

Frankly speaking, whatever you buy you will be better off buying a secondhand one.

Do consider a used Yanagisawa or Yamaha baritone. They are modernly keyed and very robustly made, will hold their value much better than a new Cannonball and probably work better.

Good luck!

http://forum.saxontheweb.net/search.php?searchid=20585832

Any recommendations for something with a heavy or jazzy sound?
 

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Also, a brand new horn will probably need at least some setup work unless it is purchased from a shop that caters to serious saxophonists and has a talented tech onsite. Of the major brands, only Yanigisawa is known for having good factory setups though I don't have ant personal experience with them.
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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Any recommendations for something with a heavy or jazzy sound?
That mostly comes from the baritone player, not the baritone.

I have a vintage The Martin baritone, though I most use a BW these days for jazz and pop TV/film session work. I recently toured and the management supplied a Yanagisawa and Selmer Seres II, but oddly I wish I'd brought my trusty old BW with me. Huge bottom end and lyrical at the top, which is the way I like them.
 

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well said Pete.

If we would only reflect upon the fact that Selmer Mark VI was developed by classical musicians and for classical music... .

The player is the sound. The same horn can play very differently in different hands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How do you maintain a nice finish on the brute? And do you guys know anything about cannonbal's reliability? Can yoh recommend a reliable horn?
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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And do you guys know anything about cannonbal's reliability?
What do you mean by this? As a company responding to customer service issues? I think they probably are very good at this, based on my communication with them.

Can yoh recommend a reliable horn?
I did.

But just checking, what do you mean by a reliable horn? One that pays the same form one day to another? All saxophones that are kept in good condition do that. So it's up to you to keep it serviced and maintained.
 

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The perspiration of your hands may be quite acidic and this might be what is breaking down the lacquer finish. You may need to wipe down the horn with a damp cloth after every time you play to slow down the deterioration.
 

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My 2 cents... the player is NOT the primary driver in the tone of a horn.

The design of the horn is the primary driver in the tone of the horn.

Player, mouthpiece, reed....can steer a horn or lean it one direction or another. But you cannot make a Yamaha sound like a JK. You will not make a Cannonball sound like a 12M. You will not make a Taishan sound like a Beaugnier.

Jupiters...good horns after around the year 2000...iffy if before then. Cannonballs...mixed reviews. Some players gush about 'em....many a tech (still continue to) curse at 'em. IMHO, inconsistent build quality....and their 'loud' is often mistaken for 'big and dark'. Not the same thing.

Big, wide, old-school, dark tone in a contemporary horn...you go for J. Keilwerth, perhaps a late B & S, perhaps a Yanagisawa-made stencil (the Yani not 'dark', per se, but rich in overtones so very fat sounding).

You want a middle-tone sort of horn, narrower in overtones, more focused, tighter, brighter but still possessing a decent amount of spread, you go Yamaha or (newer) Jupiter.

You want a classic, big, old-school sounding horn, you go vintage, pre-'80. Conn, King, Holton, Buescher, Beaugnier, Kohlert, Martin, , et al. (keeping in mind only a few of these companies ever made a Low A).
BUT, it seems you (OP) have only played Jupes, so there is keywork familiarizing you would need to do on a pre-'80 horn.

As Scroll says, you buy used....expect to put another $200-300 into it to get it really set up well (unless seller guarantees it already IS).

If your school horn hasn't been serviced in a while, it should be....
 

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if that were the case all people playing on the same horn would have a similar tone.

Listen to Sonny rollins on Buescher, King S20 & Selmer ( I know he is not a baritone player but this is an example of a known artist who changed and recorded 3 different horns)

Can anyone, without knowing the year of each recording, say for sure he plays one of these horns? Could, however, one say, this is Sonny Rollins when listening to his sound? I think the latter holds more true than any other statement.

Anyway.

I guess OP needs a horn (he plays in an orchestra) with a low A.

If that is the case, as much as I love vintage horns, the choice among classic horns is very limited and the horns in question have ergonomics that are very far away from the Jupiter that he has played until now let alone the fact that they are rare and expensive.

Low Bb are plentiful but now as popular exactly for this reason.

Maintaining the looks of a “ brute” is not more difficult than maintaining the looks of an unlacquered classic horn, a bit of liquid wax on a cloth and regular application of it would probably take care of most possible problems.

As for a brand, Pete who is a known baritone player, advises a Bauhaus Walstein, a horn which in the USA is represented by SOTW member Palo Tung at Just Saxes . Maybe it would be possible for OP to try one?

http://www.justsaxes.net

I would still recommend OP to try a Yamaha or a Yanagisawa ( or even a Vito made by Yanagisawa)

Good luck!
 

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Grafton alto | Martin Comm III tenor
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Player, mouthpiece, reed....can steer a horn or lean it one direction or another. But you cannot make a Yamaha sound like a JK. You will not make a Cannonball sound like a 12M. You will not make a Taishan sound like a Beaugnier.

I wasn't saying you can make a Yamaha sound like a JK. However I do think an experienced player may be able to get extremely close, maybe so close that most people can't tell any significant difference.

This is an interesting topic, though not very relevant to this thread. My post was in regard to the fact that any make of saxophone can have a jazzy sound, provided the player can play with a jazzy sound.
 

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indeed, the player plays the sound he has in his head.

You can make almost any horn sound like you to others ( maybe not so much for yourself but there are many reasons for that)
 
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