[bholder]

When I try to hit low notes, I almost always get an octave higher, and not very cleanly at that. Any advice? I'm using a fairly soft (2) Leger Signature reed on a Rico M9 mouthpiece for now (have a Clark W. Fobes Nova on order) - would changing either help? Softer or harder reed? Any embouchure suggestions? Getting very frustrated.

 

[bholder]

Not the first to ask - https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?349302-Beginner-low-notes-help - obvious answer is "get a teacher". Kinda hard just now...

 

[Jerry K.]

Are you sure your horn is leak free and that your octave mechanism is closing fully when not engaged? You need a relaxed embouchure and experiment with how much mouthpiece your taking in. Have you tried a more closed mouthpiece? The M9 is pretty open at .120.

 

[Bkenes]

Leaks are a possible problem. Another problem might be a slightly opened octave key pad. Make sure it's fully closed when the octave mechanism isn't activated.

 

[saxoclese]

The first step is to get your sax checked for leaks. Once those are taken care of you can accurately diagnose any remaining problems with low notes as "pilot error".

A way to check the tightness of your embouchure from "The Art of Saxophone Playing" is to play 2nd space A and while you are holding the note with your free hand "bump" the neck octave key open and let it close.

• If the note goes to a high A that is flat and "flabby" the embouchure is too loose.
• If the note goes to a high A and stays for a while, the embouchure is too tight.
• If the note jumps to a nice sound high A and then immediately comes back down, the embouchure is correct.

A few tips I use with my students to improve playing the lowest notes include:

- Sing "AHH" on the lowest note you can hit, or do the first part of a yawn and play with this shape inside the mouth and throat.
- Blow lots of warm air.
- Keep the back of the tongue down (the "AHH" does this)
- Start on low G playing forte and quickly slur down to low C
- When low C sounds in the right octave, hold it as long as you can and repeat
- Repeat for low B, and Bb

 

[datsaxman]

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhhh ...

1) Check for leaks. Octave key, other pads too. The whole horn. Leaks are often much higher than the effected notes.
2) Embouchure.
3) Start with a smaller mouthpiece.

I like an M9 Rico on bari myself.
Might be a bit too open to start out on.

dsm

 

[Bogus]

Also a bari beginner here. I don’t know why, but clearly visualizing (or whatever the audio equivalent of visualizing is) the pitch of the note helps me. If I imagine the note an octave up, I get the note an octave up even when the octave key isn’t pressed. If I imagine the lower note, I usually get it. (Unless it’s A... that one has a life of its own.) I’m probably unconsciously doing something with my mouth.

 

[JayeLID]

I am gonna bring up something yet to be mentioned here:

Check for leaks

:|

:bluewink:

(...this includes as others have noted - not just leaky pads, but proper regulation of the G# key (does it 'jump' when the pinky C#, B, Bb are engaged ?), and octave mechanisms).

I'm probably unconsciously doing something with my mouth.

At least 50% of the time when a beginner says this, it's a leaky horn. If that is the case you may be doing embouchurial calisthenics in order to get your horn to speak when what it needs is a check-up. And all that messing around with your mouth is doing you no favors other than developing bad habits.
Could be this...

If there are no leaks, then Saxoclese's suggestions above are good ones as far as blowing technique, etc...

 

[saxoclese]

"Embouchurial Calisthenics" That reminds me of a girl I dated in high school. I suppose it can also apply to playing the saxophone as well.

 

[lydian]

I agree jumping the octave is likely a leak up high. Check the spit valve too. Rarely leaks, but you never know.

Biting too hard can also do it.

Also, tonguing the low notes is a little easier if instead of the tip of the tongue you move a little further back, as if you're trying to spit out a tiny seed stuck on your tongue. Some call this a slap tongue. Once you get the hang of making the notes speak, you can ease back into a lighter tongue.

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

I'm new to baritone and at first I was trying to use too tight of an embouchure and this was occurring. Adjusted my Jazzlab sling closer and loosened my embouchure and now its playing a lot easier for me.

 

[bholder]

New mouthpieces on the way, and I'll get the horn checked for leaks. Also trying a real cane reed instead of the Legere synthetic (I love the Legere Signatures, but yeah, maybe not the best to start with on bari). Already figured out the "tongue with back of tongue" bit.
My bet is still embouchure, thanks for the tips on that specifically.

Thanks all!

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

New mouthpieces on the way, and I'll get the horn checked for leaks. Also trying a real cane reed instead of the Legere synthetic (I love the Legere Signatures, but yeah, maybe not the best to start with on bari). Already figured out the "tongue with back of tongue" bit.
My bet is still embouchure, thanks for the tips on that specifically.

Thanks all!

I'm playing on Legere 2 1/4 and 2 1/2 with a vintage Berg Larsen 100/1 and also across s,a,t,b and I would not trade them for wood at any cost.

 

[bholder]

I'm playing on Legere 2 1/4 and 2 1/2 with a vintage Berg Larsen 100/1 and also across s,a,t,b and I would not trade them for wood at any cost.

I think I just made an ignorant newbie choice when buying the M9 mouthpiece - they said it worked well with softer reeds - so have an M7 coming, and I had also ordered a Clark W. Fobes Nova mouthpiece for the bari, just got notification that that has finally shipped. I'm hoping those plus some embouchure work will "open the door" to the low notes!

 

[bholder]

The first step is to get your sax checked for leaks. Once those are taken care of you can accurately diagnose any remaining problems with low notes as "pilot error".

A way to check the tightness of your embouchure from "The Art of Saxophone Playing" is to play 2nd space A and while you are holding the note with your free hand "bump" the neck octave key open and let it close.

• If the note goes to a high A that is flat and "flabby" the embouchure is too loose.
• If the note goes to a high A and stays for a while, the embouchure is too tight.
• If the note jumps to a nice sound high A and then immediately comes back down, the embouchure is correct.

A few tips I use with my students to improve playing the lowest notes include:

- Sing "AHH" on the lowest note you can hit, or do the first part of a yawn and play with this shape inside the mouth and throat.
- Blow lots of warm air.
- Keep the back of the tongue down (the "AHH" does this)
- Start on low G playing forte and quickly slur down to low C
- When low C sounds in the right octave, hold it as long as you can and repeat
- Repeat for low B, and Bb

Particular thanks for this - the embouchure "diagnostics" should be quite informative!

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

I think I just made an ignorant newbie choice when buying the M9 mouthpiece - they said it worked well with softer reeds - so have an M7 coming, and I had also ordered a Clark W. Fobes Nova mouthpiece for the bari, just got notification that that has finally shipped. I'm hoping those plus some embouchure work will "open the door" to the low notes!

I found the M9 to be quite comfortable for me but not a very good mouthpiece when compared to a HR Berg. I also tried the B7 and I had to use a harder reed. Both played but had no real core and

when you look at them they are a refacing nightmare!

I probably missed it but what horn are you playing on? Older baris have a difficult time with modern mouthpieces. I tried Vandoren, Selmer, and then these Metalites on my 1965 JK. I also tried a 1950's King "B" pickle barrel type piece and it sounded like sh*t.

The berg didnt play at first either because the table was not flat in some spots. I fixed that and it plays perfectly.

 

[bholder]

I found the M9 to be quite comfortable for me but not a very good mouthpiece when compared to a HR Berg. I also tried the B7 and I had to use a harder reed. Both played but had no real core and

when you look at them they are a refacing nightmare!

I probably missed it but what horn are you playing on? Older baris have a difficult time with modern mouthpieces. I tried Vandoren, Selmer, and then these Metalites on my 1965 JK. I also tried a 1950's King "B" pickle barrel type piece and it sounded like sh*t.

The berg didnt play at first either because the table was not flat in some spots. I fixed that and it plays perfectly.

It's a fairly recent RS Berkeley BS509, not sure how old it is though, bought it used off ebay.

 

[BrianMitchellBrody]

It's a fairly recent RS Berkeley BS509, not sure how old it is though, bought it used off ebay.

Its considered a modern baritone and most are much more forgiving with different mouthpieces than a vintage horn, but then again I was told
that a Berg Larsen would be a terrible match up, and it was by far the best mouthpiece that I have tried thus far.

 

[JayeLID]

"Embouchurial Calisthenics" That reminds me of a girl I dated in high school. I suppose it can also apply to playing the saxophone as well.

How could you 'uv let her go ....????? :dazed:

 

[bholder]

I "just happened to have " a contrabass clarinet cane reed lying around, so tried it on the bari. A smidge too wide, but workable. After letting it soak a good long while, I gave it a try, definite improvement. Enough to start working on embouchure. Hopes are high a real bari reed and more suitable mouthpiece will get me much further.