[oberlin]

Hi,

I'm picking up the tenor and bari again after a 20 year hiatus. Stopped making music entirely after high school, but recently decided to join a community band and excited about it. Never gave much thought to tone when I was playing before, but now I'd really like to work on developing a good tone. Will be playing a combination of classical and jazz (I love both, and the band organization here plays both). To finance a few months of the bari rental I'm thinking of selling one of my two tenors.

One is a mid to late 70s King Cleveland 615 (S/N in the 6xxxxx range, pretty sure it's late 70s). It's just been tuned up, is quite scuffed up and has a bit of corrosion under the bell, but plays well. This was the horn I played through high school 20 years ago.

The other is a Chinese made Yamaha YTS-23 (S/N C54xxx). Bought it a little while ago because I was going to replace the King with it. Cosmetically it's in much better shape, and it's also just come back from the tech. Also plays well.

Originally I was going to sell the King and keep the Yamaha. Now I'm less sure. I know the Yamaha resells for slightly more (here, seems to be about $500 to 600 for a quick sale, compared to 300 to 400 for the King). The Yamaha is in better shape. When I played for another person (just some scales), they thought the Yamaha sounded richer. And it's much lighter than the King, and the keywork is easier to play on the Yamaha.

Yet... I feel somehow attached to the King! Not sure why... it does sound different than the Yamaha, though at this point with my lips and ear not having played for 20 years it's hard to know how that will develop as I get better. It's also rarer and it's the horn I've had since I was 11.

I'd love to hear what people with experience with one or both horns think. I'm nowhere near having anything approaching control over my tone yet, and suspect that it will be quite a while before I can really evaluate the playability and sound of these two horns. So any insight, info, experiences, suggestions in the meantime would be welcome!

Thanks!

 

[mijderf]

My vote is to keep the one that you prefer to play. People obsess over horn pedigree sometimes, but if you are going to dive back in and get serious about playing, you should start with the horn that you prefer to play, simply because you are likely to play it and practice more. I wouldn't worry about the sale value of the horns unless you decide that the 2 horns are equal.
So keep one and practice, practice, practice. Then when you are ready to really choose a horn that you like, it just might be a totally different model.

 

[bvandrasik]

I'd keep the King.
For sentimental reasons, and because it has little resale value, and because I love old Kings. They don't lack in anything except modern ergonomics. Pair it with a nice Link (or clone) mouthpiece and tone can't be beat. Does your username indicate your location? Another reason to hold on to the King (named and made in Cleveland)

 

[DarrellMass]

Don't know about a late 70's Cleveland, but I wouldn't sell my '66, even if I could make money on it. If yours has the brazed toned hole chimneys, like mine, I'd seriously reconsider any thought of selling it, if I were you.
I have a 10M, as my main horn, but the Cleveland offers such a different voice, I can't get rid of it. I don't play it often, lately, but when I do, I fall in love all over again.

EDIT:
BTW, I sold a pretty nice YTS-23, made in Japan, once I was able to compare the Cleveland to it. It wasn't even close! Sorry my mind was out to lunch, earlier. The Vito I sold was Made in Japan.

 

[oberlin]

Thanks, everybody. That gives me lots to think about. I think, for now, I'll hold on to and play both of them. I enjoy them both, and I'm curious to see how they sound as I get stronger, as well.

 

[SuperAction80]

Chinese and Taiwanese made Yamaha 23 tenors? 🤔

All of the 23 series was made in Japan.

 

[DarrellMass]

Chinese and Taiwanese made Yamaha 23 tenors? 🤔

All of the 23 series was made in Japan.

The aforementioned horns I'm talking about are Vito stencils, made in Japan. Sorry about that. Brain malfunction!

 

[milandro]

Chinese and Taiwanese made Yamaha 23 tenors? ?

All of the 23 series was made in Japan.

indeed. Made in Indonesia and China Yamaha came later on.

Both horns are however perfectly capable of being playing well if the player is accomplished enough. None of the two is worth a great deal of money as is.

In my part of the world a professional overhaul will cost very nearly as much as the 23 would cost ( €5-600 running into more depending on pads) in perfect playing state and way more than the 615 would cost in playing state .

Have them repaired , therefore, only for sentimental reason (if you have any) or otherwise, sell them both to a repairer and buy yourself a horn in playing state and don't bother with those, leave them to one of the many technicians ( mostly home based ) whom specialize in repairing cheap horns which they will cheaply turn around.

Some people here are capable of delivering horns for prices that would n't even cover a partial repair (something that in my part of the world fewer and fewer technicians are still willing to do these days) so they must be interested.

 

[JayeLID]

Why sell one ? Keep both. They are different enough that you'd have some nice diversity in horn character.

(BTW..IF the Yama sounds 'richer' than the King....get the King looked at (again), because there is no way a Cleve, even a late-period one, should sound thinner/less robust than a 23).

(BTW redux - most horns, even older ones, really do not 'need' a full overhaul to return them to good playing condition. Just a tech who knows what to concentrate on on the list of priorities).

 

[oberlin]

Thanks, this is all really helpful. Regarding the overhauls, I wasn't really planning on having that done. Both just came back from the tech and are in good playing condition. I'll keep them both, at least until I have my chops back and can really judge how they'll sound for me.

 

[DarrellMass]

Good decision. In time, you'll be able to judge them better than you're able to now. Enjoy!

 

[milandro]

frankly speaking if there isn’t much to be fixed, there will never be any real advantage in selling either one, they are worth very little on the open market and they will deliver more pleasure than money to you.

 

[Reet McVouty]

I think you first need to consider the value aspect. It seems there's not much to be gained (monetarily) in selling either one of these horns. I'd keep them both, in the event you stay in this orchestra you may someday move up to the tenor chair in which case you'll probably play the 23. And the Cleveland, it's value is sentimental in that it was your first horn. I still have an old Selmer New Large Bore that I couldn't sell at the price I put it up for, and you know every once and a while I take it out and play it, and it always makes me smile ...

 

[BigBen23]

If it were me I'd sell both and get a better horn than either one. if your serious about getting better and practicing YTS-52, is a good horn that gives a lot of bang for your buck.