[iceman]

Okay so right now I am getting frustrated, but still trying to keep moving. When I improvise I tend to fall back on the main key the song is in, instead of trying to work over the chord changes. In my head my improvisation sounds the same all the time, yet people say otherwise. I want to get to the point where I am improvising like the big boys (a.k.a Kenny Garrett, Wayne Shorter, John Coltrane and Charlie Parker). Right now I plan on joining some friends to make a band, but I am not where I want to be and think that they are light years ahead of me in terms of skill. When I hear people better then me I get frustrated yes, but at the same time I feel the urge to practice harder to surpass them.

Question 1.) Now the problem is finding a route to get to where I want to be. I am finally giving in to the fact that I have to try and spend the time to transcribe players like the ones listed above (Charlie Parker, Kenny Garrett, etc). When I transcribe I just pick up my horn and play along till I can play the song as good as them. One of the things that baffles me is trying to figure out what they are doing, and how to turn around and use it in my own way.

Question 2.) Another thing that gets me is actually being more creative on the spot, so I guess this question comes down to how to unlock the creative juices? Or what can I use to help step out of the box I place myself in when thinking about how to improv?

Question 3.) Since I play a lot with bands and just jam without previously knowing the chord changes. What guides should I use to figure out the chord change?
I should also say that currently I try to listen to the bass player and try to follow him. When I hear the change the first note he plays upon the change is what I use as the root note he is using.

Question 4.) Last question, how do other scales using the same note give a different coloration for example. Using a D dorian scale over the C major chord/scale, or using the corresponding mixolydian or lydian scales? Because to me it by just starting on a different note and using the same basic notes will give you the same sound. Maybe someone can explain how to this works.

Thank you for the tips in advance.

 

[hgiles]

Recognize what youre doing that you dont like and try to do the opposite. Play it backwards or upside down. Whatever 'opposite' means to you and your knowledge base, consider it. Only then will you know whether youre closer or further away to where you want to be.

Go forth!

 

[Pete Thomas]

Question 4.) Last question, how do other scales using the same note give a different coloration for example. Using a D dorian scale over the C major chord/scale, or using the corresponding mixolydian or lydian scales? Because to me it by just starting on a different note and using the same basic notes will give you the same sound. Maybe someone can explain how to this works.

That's exactly what happens, if you are playing over chord changes, I find it pointless to think about modes. A dorian mode of D is the same notes as a major scale of C. You don't get any different "colouration", you just get the same notes.

My advice to you is to learn some music theory, learn chord notes and functional harmony. There's lots of stuff on my site, but alos loads elsewhere and some good books around. I like Improvising Jazz by Jerry Coker, other people like some of the heavier stuff like the Levine book, but I prefer to keep to more basic theory which frees up my brain a bit allowing my ears a better chance to come up with melodic and interesting rather than technical and clever stuff. But that's just me.

 

[kavala]

I want to get to the point where I am improvising like the big boys (a.k.a Kenny Garrett, Wayne Shorter, John Coltrane and Charlie Parker).

Good luck. That will take a lifetime and just a small splash of genius.
If you could talk to any one of those guys they will tell you that they
practised their respective butts off, and that at one point in their
career, they were asking the same questions that you ask now.

Right now I plan on joining some friends to make a band, but I am not where I want to be and think that they are light years ahead of me in terms of skill. When I hear people better then me I get frustrated yes, but at the same time I feel the urge to practice harder to surpass them.

No matter how long or much you practise, there will always be someone that
has the edge on you. As you suggest, turn that frustration into inspiration.

Question 1.) Now the problem is finding a route to get to where I want to be.

We are all different thankfully, and so there is not one answer to this question.
What works for one person does not necessarily work for another.
You will be the sum of all you study and learn.
One important thing is to spend a lot of time listening to the masters so that you
pick up the nuances of the language.

I am finally giving in to the fact that I have to try and spend the time to transcribe players
like the ones listed above (Charlie Parker, Kenny Garrett, etc). When I transcribe I just pick
up my horn and play along till I can play the song as good as them.

If you can do this you are already ahead of many people. It means you have a good
ear, and that is the single most important asset when attempting this music.

One of the things that baffles me is trying to figure out what they are doing,
and how to turn around and use it in my own way.

If you can do it, why worry about analyzing it. Understanding
will follow as your theoretical knowledge grows.

Question 2.) Another thing that gets me is actually being more creative on the spot,
so I guess this question comes down to how to unlock the creative juices? Or what
can I use to help step out of the box I place myself in when thinking about how to improv?

This has baffled many, and is probably why a lot have turned to substance abuse.
This includes many of the the greats.
Study, practise hard, be healthy and having good equipment will all help. You don't need
these issues distracting you from your performance.
Try and surround yourself with good players that will push you to your limits.

Question 3.) Since I play a lot with bands and just jam without previously knowing
the chord changes. What guides should I use to figure out the chord change?
I should also say that currently I try to listen to the bass player and try to follow him.
When I hear the change the first note he plays upon the change is what I use as the
root note he is using.

Listening to your fellow bandmates is a good way to learn the changes.
However, I recommend learning a chording instrument such as piano
or guitar. Learn the changes to as many tunes as you can in several keys.
After doing this for a long time, you will hear common patterns to tunes
and begin to hear the changes easily for yourself.

Question 4.) Last question, how do other scales using the same note give a
different coloration for example. Using a D dorian scale over the C major chord/scale,
or using the corresponding mixolydian or lydian scales? Because to me it by just
starting on a different note and using the same basic notes will give you the same
sound. Maybe someone can explain how to this works.

Pete has pretty much covered this one.
As I get older, I tend not to think in chords or scales and try to find
melodies in there. We can all peel off a few quick arpeggios, but when
you really listen to them, often they don't make sense melodically, even
though the notes fit. Try just playing pentatonics for a while, as this
will help you create a melodic solo, then start adding notes that
lead to these more simplistic notes (voice leading)..

Above all, listen, listen, listen.
I might hear the piano player use some phrase with notes in
it that didn't occur to me, but sounds good. I figure out that
juicy note and the context, and then it becomes part of my vocab....

 

[Dave Dolson]

Kavala: Good responses. It took me years to realize that rather than trying to copy someone else I admire, I should improve what I do . . . let the horn speak for me, not someone else. I am a simple player and have developed my own style - a style that continually garners praise from the audiences. Rather than dazzling million-note runs, I try to stay well within the box and occasionally state the melody. Have good tone, stay on pitch, and make musical sense to the audiences.

As far as chord changes in a tune, I've found that many tunes are predictable - I can appear like I know a tune when in fact the first time I heard it was when I was playing it in public (although admittedly at this stage of my life I've heard just about all of them from my jazz era). Teaching myself how tunes are constructed (not the mechanics so much as how they turn out) and to anticipate what comes next has been my key to improv success.

I admire jazzers from the early jazz era and I realized that I'll never be a Bechet or a Dodds. But I can hold my own in most trad jazz settings and have fun with it. DAVE