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I finally acquired this horn from a friend of mine after renting it from him for the past few years. It's a H. Couf Superba II stencil. Being that this is a low A horn, I can only assume that the A after the 3070 stamp is a designation for the lower note. The serial number is 81,XXX and the charts I've been able to track down put the horn at 1980. The major differences I can spot from an actual Superba II are superficial. The keyguards are a different cut, the G# key lacks the plastic touchpiece, the G#/F adjustment bar is a slightly different shape, and the neck lacks the H. Couf badge. This horn lacks engraving, and also doesn't have the large expository "Made by H. Couf in Germany" stamp that I've found on several later made Armstrong stencils. The case is the original with the H. Couf badge on it.

The bell and bore seem to be larger than anything that Selmer, Yamaha, or Yanagisawa has. The low end booms, but the high end is also extremely interesting. Several saxophonists who have heard me play it have noted that the octave G through high F don't seem to thin out as much as some other baritones do. Indeed, the horn does have a unique tonal quality to it. Being that this is a Keilwerth, the keywork feels a bit more cumbersome than what the other Big 4 companies put out. It's not bad by any means, but I could see players with smaller hands wanting to swap out the fixed metal thumb hook with an adjustable one. I personally feel as if the entire layout would feel a bit more comfortable if the hook was positioned about 3/4 of an inch to the left. All in all, these are fun to play!

Here are a few pictures. If any historians know anything more about these horns, or would like other areas of the horn to be photographed, please comment below, and I'll be sure to add requests to this post.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-1-Xhz-1J6EKhWfvqHY3eNdfgRBfuQJZ/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-0pKIIrla4s3ys_KrFqEePVGnDXCrSET/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-53d6ATS-k6NumIglzBPnOSL2dM17oD1/view?usp=drivesdk
 

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This is, without any doubt, a Keilwerth Toneking baritone.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
This is, without any doubt, a Keilwerth Toneking baritone.
I've never seen a low Eb/C and aux F key cut like that on a Toneking.

The 3070 (Heritage series) was also established to be a Superba II in this thread.

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...g-Heritage-Bari-The-Same-As-a-Superba-II-Couf

Apparently 3070B is the designation for the low Bb horns. I'll have to disagree with Pete Hale's assessment that these are student/intermediate horns. The QC seems to be on par with the Superba I and II tenor saxophones that the previous owner also had in his possession.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Correction, I have seen that cut on later Tonekings as it appears that the names Toneking and Superba II were used interchangeably. From what I've seen from different horns, Keilwerth was making some changes to the keywork throughout the line.

http://www.saxpics.com/?v=mod&modID=76

According to saxpics, the Armstrong 3070 and Heritage models were different horns, but that contradicts the information found in the previous thread. So I'm not quite sure where the truth lies there.
 

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Well, to me this looks like a Keilwerth and there are lots of similarities, any difference is minor and probably made on purpose to differentiate the production.

True some Armstrongs were made in the USA using Keilwerth tooling , but I think that this wasn’t true of the baritones. Anyway, if you have any more precise information... .
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, to me this looks like a Keilwerth and there are lots of similarities, any difference is minor and probably made on purpose to differentiate the production.

True some Armstrongs were made in the USA using Keilwerth tooling , but I think that this wasn’t true of the baritones. Anyway, if you have any more precise information... .
What's weird is the lack of information regarding these saxes, and the information that Keilwerth has seems to conflict with what one can see with the horns themselves. I'd say that this is unusual, but I have been able to stump Yamaha before with similar inquiries. I suppose in the realm of mass production of saxophones, records aren't all that important.
 

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I just got this in the mail. Yours has the same low C/Eb keys and a few similarities but not sure if yours is USA tooling or Germany.

My reads Made In Germany
 

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I have an Armstrong Heritage tenor made by Couf that I bought new in 1981-2.
A similar look.
 

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I had an Armstrong 3070A listed for sale or trade on SOTW last summer and fall. Great horn, and it was pretty much identical to the photos of a Superba II bari at saxpics. I ended up trading it for a Superba I tenor.
 
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