[Hornlip]

I'm going to get a baritone & Buescher's high on the list. I've played Bueschers from every era. I have medium-size hands and generally don't have issues with vintage keywork, but my experience with baritones in general is limited, so I don't have much perspective on how different the older horns feel from the later ones. Or how much they generally differ in feel from altos & tenors.

I would consider a later TT horn, or an Aristocrat. I assume the keywork on the Aristocrats is easier than the TTs to get around on. For those who have played both, how dramatic is the difference?

 

[JayeLID]

One thing, not directly answering your question - Boosh split-bellkey baritones had a tendency to be unstable around low E and low D (warble/gurgle). I had refurbed a couple and this happened on both, and Matt Stohrer confirmed it as well. This is not relieved by a cork thrown into the bell, not a mouthpiece change....it usually requires a small piece of something to actually be soldered to the inside of the body tube.

Just something to look out for.

Best of luck in your search....

 

[lostcircuits]

I love the TTs but the Aristocrats are definitely easier to play - just with respect to the ergos. Even when you get used to the TTs so I highly recommend any Aristocrat if you have the choice. The other options of course would be King, I have a '41 Zephyr bari and it is a killer horn or else a Conn 12M. These three horns are different from each other but I would be hard pressed to say that either one is "better" than the other. And then there are Martin and many others (which I never played), so just keep an open mind, times are good for hunting right now!

 

[paulwl]

One thing, not directly answering your question - Boosh split-bellkey baritones had a tendency to be unstable around low E and low D (warble/gurgle). I had refurbed a couple and this happened on both, and Matt Stohrer confirmed it as well. This is not relieved by a cork thrown into the bell, not a mouthpiece change....it usually requires a small piece of something to actually be soldered to the inside of the body tube.

Just something to look out for.

Best of luck in your search....

I've only heard this about the early TTs to high Eb. (Never played one, mind you.)

The later models don't seem to have it - certainly not the split bell Aristocrats with front F and all the gee-gaws. My 1935 Aristocrat has such a mellow quality, I think Gerry Mulligan would have enjoyed playing one.

 

[dzve]

I have '38 custom built & its the greatest baritone I have ever played.

 

[Hornlip]

I love the TTs but the Aristocrats are definitely easier to play - just with respect to the ergos. Even when you get used to the TTs so I highly recommend any Aristocrat if you have the choice. The other options of course would be King, I have a '41 Zephyr bari and it is a killer horn or else a Conn 12M. These three horns are different from each other but I would be hard pressed to say that either one is "better" than the other. And then there are Martin and many others (which I never played), so just keep an open mind, times are good for hunting right now!

Thanks. All those horns are on the option list, but I'm a little leery of the Zephyr because I've heard the ergs on that one can be a stretch if you don't have big hands.

I have '38 custom built & its the greatest baritone I have ever played.

I have heard good things about them - I remember Maddemna's posts about them a few years ago - but they're so rare I wouldn't set my sights on that particular horn. Plus they're going to go for a premium, assuming the seller knows what they've got. But if one popped up & the price was right yeah I would probably just plump for that one!

 

[Hornlip]

One thing, not directly answering your question - Boosh split-bellkey baritones had a tendency to be unstable around low E and low D (warble/gurgle). I had refurbed a couple and this happened on both, and Matt Stohrer confirmed it as well. This is not relieved by a cork thrown into the bell, not a mouthpiece change....it usually requires a small piece of something to actually be soldered to the inside of the body tube.

Just something to look out for.

Best of luck in your search....

Thanks for the tip.

I've only heard this about the early TTs to high Eb. (Never played one, mind you.)

The later models don't seem to have it - certainly not the split bell Aristocrats with front F and all the gee-gaws. My 1935 Aristocrat has such a mellow quality, I think Gerry Mulligan would have enjoyed playing one.

The split-bell Aristocrats came with the Norton springs, correct?

 

[paulwl]

The split-bell Aristocrats came with the Norton springs, correct?

Yes they did.

 

[Bob M]

See if you can find a "Custom Built" Aristocrat (model 139; see my avatar). They are rare but fantastic.

 

[IBeOmega]

One thing, not directly answering your question - Boosh split-bellkey baritones had a tendency to be unstable around low E and low D (warble/gurgle).

I have never heard this before.
I own a TT bari and it does not do this with my JJ DV NY, a Link STM, a Link Tone Edge, or a Rousseau Classic, all of which play fairly well in tune on the horn. (Yeah the Rousseau shocked me too!) I don't remember it doing that with a pickle barrel either.
It does warble with a couple of mouthpieces I've tried, but those pieces were comically out of tune anyway so I can't say I'm surprised other issues appeared as well.

The TT bari's right hand ergonomics don't get along with short fingers. Modifying the RH side keys to sit a bit lower wouldn't be too expensive if it is a problem. My fingers are long so I've never had an issue with it at all - consequently I need a huge riser on LH palm D, but that's cheap and easy.
I'm sure an Aristocrat would be a bit better, but I've never tried one. I would definitely appreciate the extra inline low Bb touch, and the thought has crossed my mind to simply have an extension made and brazed onto my TT.

I tried a very early transitional Zephyr, but the bore was still the '20s Voll True. I had no issues with the ergos, so I wouldn't expect any with a later King. Pretty similar to the TT, except the RH and LH palm keys both sat lower. It was more mouthpiece-picky than my Buescher though, but again, not really a Zephyr.

FWIW I can't stand the RH ergos of a Conn bari. My right fingers and wrist end up at an uncomfortable angle to get my fingertips on the pearls and pinky table correctly, mostly just because the horn sits so damn low and my fingers are long. Which is fine, I prefer the way a Buescher plays anyway!

 

[Hornlip]

Well I have ended up getting a later '50s Conn 12M.

Was waiting for an Aristocrat to pop up, but this was too good of a deal to pass on - motivated seller & a horn in solid, well maintained condition. I was leery, but ergs on this are just fine.

So I can still look forward to trying an Aristocrat, someday!

 

[B Flat]

I have '38 custom built & its the greatest baritone I have ever played.

Now this just makes me jealous.

 

[paulwl]

Among Buescher baris, only the Big B - a left bell-keyed model 129 - has any reputation, and that only within the Rascherian esthetic.

The late Ken ****, of the Rascher Quartet, played a silver Big B. He explained his choice as this being the horn that had the most potential for darkness.

 

[Teddy]

I have a high F Bari('26)Silver in pristine condition. The sound is awesome. I prefer it over my 12M though you have to adjust ergonomically.

 

[Teddy]

I have a TT Bari '25 love it. Like any other horn you get the proper MPC and it speaks. No warble either. In tune and I like the sound better than my 12m. Ergonomically you have o get used to it.Make sure its a high F model Ive heard the older Eb models are not as good

 

[JayeLID]

I've only heard this about the early TTs to high Eb. (Never played one, mind you.)

The later models don't seem to have it - certainly not the split bell Aristocrats with front F and all the gee-gaws. My 1935 Aristocrat has such a mellow quality, I think Gerry Mulligan would have enjoyed playing one.

I have never heard this before.

I believe two I did were keyed to high F....because I doubt I would ever have acquired a high Eb one.

Anyways, two was enough of them for me.

Again, Matt Stohrer actually knows more on this and he identified a particular serial range or serial zone where this seemed to exist.

The two I did just happened to fall in that serial range...not all TT bighorns did, of course. Unfortunately, I can't remember the numbers.
Maybe contacting him could get that answer (?) although last I heard he was on hiatus (?)

I am not saying "stay away"...I am just saying: confirm that one you are interested in doesn't have this 'attribute'...if not via a direct playtest, get the seller to confirm it.

 

[JayeLID]

double post

 

[Teddy]

My TT Bari (silver)sounds amazing and look like it belongs in a museum.Keyed to hi F no front key though. I have read but do not know that older(with no spit valve) or Eb keyed were not nearly as good.That said it has a feeling mechanically that is not modern but very playable if you take the time to figure it out.