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yes, he's a nice guy. no nonsense and quick shipping. if you're buying a sax then ask him lots of questions and get extra pics. like any other seller just assume the sax is in worse shape than their description; they may not know their way around it well like us.
 

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Indistinguishable Resident Buescher Bigot and Foru
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I have good experience with this seller as well.
 

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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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In 2007, I had a bad experience with Tim (webuyold). I bought a silver plated Conn 6M VIII that was significantly not as described. First, it took several days after payment before I heard anything back to repeated requests for information on my side. Then the horn failed to show up, his phone number listed in ebay was not in service, and the tracking numbers he provided did not work. Then he said the horn had been returned to him because of an illegible label. I received the horn about two and a half weeks after payment. The horn was sent in its case with a fedex sticker on it- no box. The horn itself was totally beat, not as described. Based on my awful experience getting him to give me shipping information, I decided it was best to escalate the case to a "dispute" with eBay for recordkeeping. Here is the email chain that commenced afterward:

Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 8/31/07
Tim,

The sax arrived today, and I am sorry to say that it did not arrive even close to how it was advertised. I am very disappointed and the saxophone is not worth what I paid for it. I would like to return it and get my money back.

I have taken pictures of the manner in which it was packed (no box!) and the damage on the saxophone, which is quite extensive, for my records should they be needed. I hope that you will simply refund me my money and I can send the saxophone back to you.

--
matt stohrer
www.stohrerwoodwinds.com
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 8/31/07
hello mathew..what happened ?? damaged shipping?? let me know i pack well not sure why u did this without even contacting me...now i am negative all weekend...this is maybe not the way to go about it by putting my money in negative status..i must have it back then asap
oh well....
tim
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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 8/31/07
I am not sure what happened, although damaged in shipping is probably part of it- I have never seen a sax sent without a box! I can tell you what is wrong with the sax:

1. The bell is crushed
2. There are a bunch of very sloppy resolders on the back of the horn which were not advertised
3. The sax itself is bent
4. it is MISSING a post for the low C# key, which was rattling around in the case putting dings in everything.

I will send it as soon as you refund my entire payment, including shipping. That is how returns are done in ebay- otherwise at the end I could have nothing, and you could have both my $1000 and the (broken) saxophone. Please send it ASAP, and I will ship the saxophone to you.

-Matt


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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/1/07
Tim,

Please advise me of when I can expect a payment. I paid within seconds of the auction ending, and I would hope you would pay me the same respect by giving me my refund promptly.

I have attached two pictures of the saxophone, taken right after unboxing, that show some (not nearly all) of the damages.

-Matt
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2 attachments — Download all attachments View all images
bad resolder and missing post small.jpg
350K View Download
crushed bell small.jpg
306K View Download
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/1/07
hello the funds are on hold in paypal..when i recieve the sax i will have to look at it...then give the refund..that is all i can do now that u started a claim item will have to be returned to me first....
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/1/07
You are mistaken. First, I started a "dispute", not a claim. A claim will put your funds on hold and then PayPal makes the decision about the refund. A dispute is merely a record that there is an issue, and you still have the power to send a refund, which will automatically close the dispute. How would you not have the ability to make a refund now, but you would suddenly get that ability once the saxophone is back in your hands?

From paypal: "Can I request a refund?

Absolutely. The seller has the option of providing a full refund to you at any time. If the seller provides a full refund, your dispute will automatically close."

Please send my refund.

-Matt



Pasted info on disputes from Paypal:
"
Dispute Resolution Tips



What is the best way to approach my seller about resolving thi
Can I request a refund?

Absolutely. The seller has the option of providing a full refund to you at any time. If the seller provides a full refund, your dispute will automatically close.


Can I return merchandise to the seller for a refund?

This is an option you may wish to propose to the seller. We strongly suggest that you use a shipping service that can provide tracking information. This will avoid any confusion over whether the item was shipped and when it will arrive.


When should I close this dispute?

Wait until you are 100% satisfied that the dispute is fully resolved before closing the dispute. A closed dispute cannot be re-opened or escalated to a PayPal claim, so before you close your dispute you should ensure that your concerns have been fully addressed. For example, if the seller is going to provide a refund, make sure that the funds are in your account before closing the dispute. Likewise, if the seller is going to send a replacement item, don't close the dispute until you have received it.

Remember, a dispute will automatically close 20 days after the date it was opened. You should escalate a dispute to a claim if you haven't fully resolved the issue within 20 days.


My seller and I cannot agree on a resolution. What can we do?

Both you and the seller have the option of escalating your dispute to a claim with PayPal. If you escalate the dispute you are asking PayPal to decide the case for you.

This is best viewed as a last resort, and is usually the desirable option only when you are unable to resolve the dispute directly or if the seller chooses not to communicate.
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/1/07
hello...one thing also u may want to note is that u didnt ask about the damage i did say in the ad and the pics did show that..also u paid without even asking about what i did say in the ad..and i also noted it needed alot of work...with tlc...so when i recieve it even though i dont have a return policy ..then i will release the funds paypal put on hold...also they will require a trac number u sent it back in same condition as recieved..i will be adding a note to the fed ex damage slip as well...
later
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: conn 6m

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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/1/07
Tim,


I have called PayPal customer support, and they have re-verified that you can in fact close the dispute by refunding me.

At this point I am willing to do this two ways:
1. You send me a refund, I send the sax back. The dispute is automatically closed, and you get positive feedback for fixing a bad situation.
2. You refuse to send a refund. I escalate the dispute to a claim, which freezes your paypal account until PayPal mediates our dispute and either finds in my favor or your favor- which could take up to 30 days. I also asked whether you are protected since your auction states "as-is" and "no returns", and you are not. Most likely the case would be found in my favor, since the missing post is not mentioned at all and that makes the item significantly different than the description in the auction listing. Don't forget, I am also a saxophone expert! Finally, at the end of all of it, I will leave negative feedback.

If I do not receive my refund within 24 hours, I will be escalating this to a claim.

If I do receive my refund, the saxophone will be sent to you insured via FedEx ground, and I will send you the tracking number. Since it is already Saturday afternoon here and Monday is a holiday, the sax will be going out Tuesday morning.

-Matt
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/1/07
hello paypal has already frozen the funds till i recieve the sax....so no need to worry about the funds...i need the trac number before i can release the sax and know that it is on its way
i have also talked to paypal...
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/1/07
Not sure why they would be telling us different things. Can you cut and paste something from paypal showing that you are unable to send a refund?
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/1/07
hello....
its just u went about this the wrong way ...u put my account in negative statis already yesterday...without even contacting me...also sending a polite email with intentions is alot better than coming home to a negative acount..u have to understand this as well
please rethink your actions on how u went about this...paypal will require a trac number that u are returning the item i have done this process before....on both sides of the coin...so think this through...the funds will remain on hold either way anyways...
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/1/07
I have done it as well. A dispute is merely a record, and does not put your funds on hold. A claim puts your funds on hold. Filing a dispute protects both of us since there is now a record of it. This is a dispute, not a claim- yet.

How come paypal specifically says a dispute will not hold funds, and a live person at paypal has also re-verified that your funds are not on hold?
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/1/07
hello paypal took the funds out of my account that i had with paypal the full amount i sent u..is now in a hold status...i only had around 800 in my paypal account when u opened up the claim...yesterday when u did this my account went negative almost 300 so i was very upset with everything ..and there is nothing i can do after that happens regardless....this has happed to me before but usually to overseas bidders that have to wait for a extra amount of time for customs usually not a stateside bidder....paypal will put your account in the full negative until a resolution is stated...]
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/1/07
According the paypal, you have the ability to issue a refund. Go to either the original transaction and click issue refund or go to the dispute and choose issue refund.

FYI, I noticed upon very close inspection of the photo on the listing you can see that the C# post is missing- so it was missing before shipping, and was not mentioned in the auction description. I think the sax was probably ALSO damaged in shipping, but it was also described inaccurately. If you played the sax as you said in the description, you definitely would have noticed the C# key falling off the horn.

I have now called paypal twice, and they have confirmed that you can currently issue a refund. If you cannot figure out how, you should call them and have them walk you through it. Otherwise I am going to initiate a claim to ensure that I get my money back.

-matt
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/1/07
hello thanks for telling me the missing piece was in the pic...at least it was shown...as far as my account goes..it is already in a claim status as of yesterday my acount is froze..i am sure paypal will not tell u the exact status of my account or anyone eles..i have tried that before as well and they only tell u so much if u buy and sell alot u will have had this happen where they put the full amount on hold till stus changes or item returned for a full credit..then released but have to show that item was returned and signed for..same method as recieved...the paypal thing is messed up when claim even opened funds will be put on hold or your account goes negative or frozen till issue resolved..i have been doing this for some time now..i have almost always worked it out very well with all my buyers....and smoothly as well ..it is up to you if u want this to be a smooth transaction back to you or not...i have also contacted paypal as i said..
i am going for a few days here tonight anyways..on family vacation with labor day and all..will talk to u later i guess...i cant do much with a negative account anyways...
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/1/07
Well since you say your account is already in "claim" status I will go ahead and file a claim. That way we can do it by the book through paypal and get it over with quickly. I am going to file the claim right now- I think you will be given the option to move things forward. I will do this now so we can get started while you are on vacation and have as little delay for your accout being unfrozen and me getting my money back as possible. If everything goes smoothly, I will still give positive feedback.
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/1/07
hello mathew...all i wanted was some communication at first is the best instead of coming home to a big mess before heading out with family bad way to start a weekend....like i said when returned item and proof..with original wrappings so i can file a claim if that needs to be...refund will be issued back...that is how this paypal thing works..i have had so many different ways things have happened..have issued probably 6 or 7 full refunds to those who thought they didnt get what was advertised and in one case i had a small typo..the person sent the item back no questions..didnt file a claim....just said he wanted a full refund upon return of my sax....when it got here he got his money returned no questions...and we are still doing more business since..so i am easy to work with but u have to understand that u have to let people know what is going on without throwing bricks at them...thx for your consideration....
refund will happen when i sign for it at my doorstep....that is how it works....thx
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/1/07
Like I've tried to say many times so far, according to paypal a "dispute" is much different from a claim. Also according to three different paypal agents I spoke to on the phone, it is impossible to freeze money through a dispute. At worst, you may have not been able to withdraw that amount, but you were (according to paypal three times) always able to refund me that money.

I was merely trying to give us both a record of the refund, vs. freeze your entire account. Since you said it was already frozen, I filed a claim to be extra sure that I get my money back.

I will do my best to get the packing materials back for you- I unpacked it at work, and I called earlier today to make sure that the trash was not emptied, so I should be able to get the bubble wrap bag back. I did also take pictures of the packaging, since I was so sure I would find extensive damage. I can send those to you if you would like, but from what I know of FedEx, they are not going to like the fact that it wasn't even boxed. I know my FedEx branch wouldn't even let me send something packaged like that.

I am sending the horn along with any original packaging materials I can find out to you on Tuesday.

In the future, refer to this guide on packing a saxophone: http://www.cybersax.com/packsax.html
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/6/07
hello matt...
refund returned to you...it does look like the case outside was scuffed in one spot on the tape ...the post was not like that when i carefully packed it up....the case with plastic wrap was in the bottom of the box with all the peanuts on top..just to let u know peanuts dont work....i ship instruments all over the world...this is the first one to be returned because of something that got broke from when i sent it...not sure about the bell part....i also sent a thing through ebay about the sale so i can recover my seller fees for this sale if u would answer that and close this sale that would be greatly appreciated...sorry u didnt like what u bought...its always good to get more pics if u want...ask questions..i am a trombone player...learning the saxes right now...sorry again for your inconvieniance......have a good evening..
best,
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/7/07
hello...just for your information as well the bell was not bent like this at all..before i sent it...also the post was not broke off like this either...there will be a claim for those damages...u may still have to get involved if fed ex needs any information from u....hard to figure how that bell got so bent like that..????also there is a flat spot on bottom that was not there before i sent it out...so something did happen to it...not sure how but anyways a claim will be filed for those damages....just to let u know...
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/7/07
I have attached pictures from your auction highlighting the post that WAS already missing, as well as the bell that WAS already crushed. If FedEx asks me, I will tell them the truth- that the majority of damage was already done. I've gone along with what you've said so I could ensure getting a refund, but I am not going to help you rip off FedEx. You described the saxophone incorrectly, you deliberately photographed the sax from angles that made the damage difficult to detect, and you packaged the saxophone extremely poorly. I'm just glad I was the one who bought it vs. some poor student somewhere hoping to finally get a pro sax.
- Show quoted text -
2 attachments — Download all attachments View all images
6m 1.JPG
62K View Download
6m 2.JPG
72K View Download
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/7/07
hello....the post was gone...??? i will check if so i wont claim that...but the bell was crushed regardless...i will not try to rip off fed ex but i am putting in a claim for the bell only...the other damages before i will not try to claim as that was what i had before the shipment...like i said have shipped over 100 saxes like this in its case with alot of bubble wrap inside and outside..never had any problems....its when ups puts these in a big box of peanuts thats when damages occur
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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tim olson ✆ to me
show details 9/7/07
just one more thing...the bell and bottom of sax did not have that damage...somewhere along the way i almost feel from your emails that u maybe bent the bell more when u were mad...but that what it is ..damage was done...
tim
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew August Stohrer
To: tim olson
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Matthew August Stohrer ✆ to tim
show details 9/7/07
You are really dishonest with yourself. You and I both know the real deal, and no amount of talking or emailing with change that.

I am blocking your emails from now on, so anything you send me will automatically be deleted and I will never even know you sent me an email.





And that was the last we spoke. He did bid on a few things I was selling on ebay in the years that followed, but I always deleted his bid.

This whole process took from August 2007 to September 2007. And yep, I definitely got agitated there at the end- I was not surprised to deal with someone trying to hold on to a large amount of money they'd rather have than a busted horn worth way less than the cash, but the accusation that I would deliberately damage a sax rubbed me way the wrong way. Hopefully I'm a calmer guy now, and hopefully he is a better businessman.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2014
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I have a c melody chu from him that was packed well, and a good horn. His listings are kind of strange, but my experiences with him have been straight forward.
 

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Forum Contributor 2007-2012, Distinguished SOTW Te
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3,314 Posts
Original photos from the auction. I circled damage in the photos to show that the damage I described was not from shipping. This damage was NOT described in the auction, but clearly seen in person. A little more difficult to see in photos unless you know what you are looking for:



 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2014
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The post could have been resoldered without leaving a mark, but that bell damage can be ugly and many times will leave a trace of the damage.
 

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Distinguished SOTW Member, Forum Contributor 2014
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My eyes are open....wow thats nasty.
 

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I have to say that as of summer 2010 Tim was still:
1. Packing horns in flimsy bags of foam and shipping them without boxes.
2. Carelessly misdescribing horns
3. Very slow to issue refunds

The sax I bought was described as having new pads and actually had original 80 year old pads. I too gasped when the package arrived leaking peanuts through one side of the taped up "bag" of foam, and after about 6 weeks of nagging, I was able to get $100 as a partial refund though this in no way paid for the difference between new pads and old pads. In my case, I don't think Tim was being deceptive, just careless. I think he copied and pasted a description from a different horn on his new listing. Anyway it's definitely caveat emptor in this case.
 

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Tim blocked me from bidding on his auctions after I made an inquiry with some pointed questions for an item that I was interested in purchasing. That phony...no caps .... backwoods....writing style... strikes me as just a ridiculous attempt to shirk responsibility for a listing under the guise of a self-created persona of naiveté.
 

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Wow...I got off lucky. Really. I got a lot of extra photos and the King I bought had been overhauled and repadded correctly. It arrived fairly well packed and I was pretty pleased and I'm fussy. The horn was very pretty. in excellent used condition and I only sold it because I prefer my V1. Sorry about everyone else's problems.
 

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I have never bought anything from webuyold because his descriptions just did not inspire much confidence. However, I just had an interesting experience pertaining to him I thought I should share. I was looking at Mark VI altos on ebay and saw one that had apparently been sold already twice before. (See ebay item numbers 280784406871 and 280787588059.) I thought it was a little odd so I aked the seller about it. His reply was as follows: "someone made ​​me an offer, and for 5 days no payment only sent me a message saying that soon I would pay but did not say when, but I was reviewing the publications of the Selmer Mark VI on eBay and my sax was published in ebay with my photographs by the person who had offered me, then report to Ebay and republish my sax but 5 minutes later a friend of the buyer made ​​an offer, just to tell me that he was wrong, two publications had seen the same sax wanted.so any way I was cancel the purchase ,the nickname is ""WEBUYOLD"" item number 160696838742 .."
Not the clearest explanation, but I understood that the buyer had "purchased" the sax from the seller, without paying the seller, and then immediately relisted it for a higher price using the seller's original pictures (cropped, reversed, colors changed slightly, etc. to make it less obvious). I checked ebay, and the buyer's listings for the horn were ebay item numbers 160695166122 and 160696838742. The buyer/flipper was "webuyold."
This helped me understand why his descriptions are often so vague, and why he often has excuses as to why if you buy his item shipping will be delayed. It would appear that he "buys" items off ebay without paying for them as long as he can, and then immediately relists them for a profit. If he can resell it for a profit, he pays the original seller. If he can't, the original sale falls through. Obviously, he cannot give a first-hand description of the horn if he does not have it in his possession, and if someone buys it from him, it will take a while because he will first have to pay the original seller and wait to receive the horn.
I do not know if this is considered an acceptable ebay practice or not, and am not stating any value judgments here. I am just posting this so potential buyers will be aware that webuyold may, on some occasions, be selling items he does not physically possess.
 

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Obviously, he cannot give a first-hand description of the horn if he does not have it in his possession, and if someone buys it from him, it will take a while because he will first have to pay the original seller and wait to receive the horn.
I am just posting this so potential buyers will be aware that webuyold may, on some occasions, be selling items he does not physically possess.
Same observations as quote above and had an experience similar to Matt's- though in my case for a smaller dollar amount (I wrote it off as a lesson learned). Will not do business again with WBO.

May he fall through the ice (waist deep only...)!

Addendum: as with the extended observation above by Matt, my first hand experience is from over a year ago. He may have cleaned up his act- though I personally would still be very wary of any business interactions. The current EBay system gives buyers substantial leverage; while there might be a significant delay you're relatively well protected eventually.
 
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