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kennyb said:
Link, Meyer, Runyon, and Guardala would be rather surprised to learn that.
People have done it but if you know anything about patents you no they expire in seven years and that a 7% change in the design voids the patent. You could change they way a piece looks on the outside and that would be enough te void the patent. Phil
 

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Phil Barone said:
People have done it but if you know anything about patents you no they expire in seven years and that a 7% change in the design voids the patent. You could change they way a piece looks on the outside and that would be enough te void the patent. Phil

So what exactly make a 7% change in design? Who quantifies that? It seems incredibly murky and open to lawsuits...
 

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Phil Barone said:
People have done it but if you know anything about patents you no they expire in seven years and that a 7% change in the design voids the patent. You could change they way a piece looks on the outside and that would be enough te void the patent. Phil
Patent rights last 20 years from the submission of the application (used to be 17 years from the issuing of the patent), but I agree that patents on mouthpieces would be tough to enforce. I haven't heard of the 7% you mention, I'd be interested to know where you heard that. As far as I know it just has to be enough to convince the judge that it is "sufficiently" different. I do have a patent on a guitar pick, a much different thing from a mouthpiece as it's relatively simple and copyable. Mouthpieces are way more complicated to design and manufacture, so it's easier to change something to avoid infringing an existing patent.
 

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kennyb said:
Patent rights last 20 years from the submission of the application (used to be 17 years from the issuing of the patent), but I agree that patents on mouthpieces would be tough to enforce. I haven't heard of the 7% you mention, I'd be interested to know where you heard that. As far as I know it just has to be enough to convince the judge that it is "sufficiently" different. I do have a patent on a guitar pick, a much different thing from a mouthpiece as it's relatively simple and copyable. Mouthpieces are way more complicated to design and manufacture, so it's easier to change something to avoid infringing an existing patent.
I patented a thumbhook and my lawyer gave me the information I posted but someone copied it anyway. The bottom line here is that for the amount of money it would cost you to take someone to court would'nt make sense.
Now tradmarks, that's a whole different story. There's much more protection. BTW, you'd have to show losses and be able to prove that the losses were a dieect result of the person infringing upon your product patent or copyright and it would cost a fortune. Not worth it for mouthpieces which don't generate enough money to warrent a lawsuit and even then you'd only get what the court determined you lost and maybe punitive damages. You could win a buck and get a million in punitive. At best a patent where mouthpieces are concerned are a very small deterent. Phil
 

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Phil Barone said:
A long time ago when I would put new plating on a DG I would have to polish it first and the DG would get buffed off just through the course of polishing so I put it back on. Well, Guardala had a tiffy over it and we went to court. I had a Link that he put his name on, not just his initials. The judge threw it out, not the mouthpiece, the whole case.

As far as Gary is concerned, like any businessman he had an idea to make what is called an aftermarket product. Make the same piece without the name. I personally wouldn't do it but it's done all the time with products you all buy and sabve big money on. Phil
I was actually referring to the claims posted on the "hidden" part of Sugal's website. The comments about him making aftermarket mouthpieces is ironic considering what he charges for his stuff, which is ridiculous considering the quality of it.

And I doubt that DG will be calling you anytime soon to ask that you stop engraving his initials. He only gets one phone call after all.

As I see it, you were in a bad situation either way. If you put his initials on it, people will say that you shouldn't have done that because it's a counterfeit, and if you put your own initials on it, then people will say that you shouldn't have messed with Guardala's blanks. (And if you put "Guardala finished by Barone" you might risk a lawsuit from WWBW or PMS.) If it's blank, it still doesn't help because the person who owns the mouthpiece could then go out and sell it as an original, and THAT would start a big argument.

Now, that's not to say that you shouldn't have finished it. Might as well considering that it was halfway done already, and I imagine that it was fairly easy compared to making a piece from scratch. Also, it's kind of a cool challenge anyway.

As long as the seller doesn't try and pass this off as an original...now that would be a different situation.
 

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J.Max said:
I was actually referring to the claims posted on the "hidden" part of Sugal's website. The comments about him making aftermarket mouthpieces is ironic considering what he charges for his stuff, which is ridiculous considering the quality of it.

And I doubt that DG will be calling you anytime soon to ask that you stop engraving his initials. He only gets one phone call after all.

As I see it, you were in a bad situation either way. If you put his initials on it, people will say that you shouldn't have done that because it's a counterfeit, and if you put your own initials on it, then people will say that you shouldn't have messed with Guardala's blanks. (And if you put "Guardala finished by Barone" you might risk a lawsuit from WWBW or PMS.) If it's blank, it still doesn't help because the person who owns the mouthpiece could then go out and sell it as an original, and THAT would start a big argument.

Now, that's not to say that you shouldn't have finished it. Might as well considering that it was halfway done already, and I imagine that it was fairly easy compared to making a piece from scratch. Also, it's kind of a cool challenge anyway.

As long as the seller doesn't try and pass this off as an original...now that would be a different situation.
I know, either way I was in between a rock and a hard place. It wasn't a big challange but it was a lot of work. BTW, there was a number on the piece in magic marker and I'm sure it was the serial number. Phil
 

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nevermind
 

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Phil Barone said:
I patented a thumbhook and my lawyer gave me the information I posted but someone copied it anyway. The bottom line here is that for the amount of money it would cost you to take someone to court would'nt make sense.
Now tradmarks, that's a whole different story. There's much more protection. BTW, you'd have to show losses and be able to prove that the losses were a dieect result of the person infringing upon your product patent or copyright and it would cost a fortune. Not worth it for mouthpieces which don't generate enough money to warrent a lawsuit and even then you'd only get what the court determined you lost and maybe punitive damages. You could win a buck and get a million in punitive. At best a patent where mouthpieces are concerned are a very small deterent. Phil
I can see why that thumbhook thing didn't work out -- sorry about that.

I generally agree with you about trademarks being better for mouthpieces BTW.
 

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kennyb said:
I can see why that thumbhook thing didn't work out -- sorry about that.

I generally agree with you about trademarks being better for mouthpieces BTW.
You should have seen this thing. It adjusted up and down abd from left to right. It also puklled your hands back so your fingers were touching the pearls. Phil
 

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Phil Barone said:
You should have seen this thing. It adjusted up and down abd from left to right. It also puklled your hands back so your fingers were touching the pearls. Phil

Can you buy one of these somewhere? That sounds like a good future investment for my giant alien hands...
 
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