[saxforfun]

Here is my first question.I bought a brand new Yamaha Custom YAS 82Z in march. Yes I like it very much but I had to have pads adjusted for the third ime. Is it normal for a new sax?
Thanks

 

[playatsax]

The same happened to mine. I'd never had a new sax before, and wondered the same things. As you start to play, the keys begin to adjust. Springs start to settle, keys will flex, pads will compress. It's reallly no different than a new car. Everything is real tight for a while, but after usage things start to settle in and road noises will be more noticeable. Eventually all the settling will be done, and you'll not have to get it adjusted as often. I don't know what your skill level is, but I got a rope light and adjusted it myself. After about 6 months of adjusting after every other gig, I haven't touched it since (about 3 years).

 

[Dave Dolson]

I've had a lot of new saxophones in my time and never experienced what you two have described. One of my new altos was a Yamaha Custom Z (well, it wasn't brand new but a very recent sale then I got it). I didn't have it long enough for anything to go south, so I can't comment either way about it. I did buy a new Yamaha clarinet that required work not long after I bought it. A YSS62S (silver soprano) I bought new is STILL playing well and that purchase was over 20 years ago with lots of playing on it after I bought it. It has had NO adjustments. DAVE

 

[William Bua]

That's what happens when factories use hot glue instead of shellac for pad installation. All the new horns have the crappy hot glue.

 

[bruce bailey]

Maine-Quebec? Maybe it is a north Atlantic thing!
My Mark VI that I got new needed about 15 pads reseated within a year. It seems like makers are like car companies now.....get it out the door and let the dealer/customer fix it.

 

[swperry1]

I don't know about Quebec, but I can make a 50/50 guess as to where the guy in Maine bought his new Yamaha (if he bought it in state). If he bought it at the dealer closest to him, I am not surprised that it needed work. If the playing condition of the horns they have in stock to trial is any indication of what they send people home with or their shop tech's work, it leaves a lot to be desired. I have been in their a few times to try out new gear, and I always ask if the horns are set up before purchase, and the answer every time was that the horn is ready to go (straight of the wall)...I think dealers like this are the #1 reason why people go and play test great horns and leave with a sour taste in their mouth and scratching their head as to why they should pay dealer pricing.

If I buy a horn from a SOTW member or mail order company (I've done several of both), I expect to spend a little extra cash to get it set up well. In my opinion, that is why they (mail orders) are cheaper. There is no storefront to keep up, they just stock their horns and ship them out...Only time they really get worked on is if something is obviously wrong on visual inspection. Sometimes you get lucky and no work needs to be done right away.

If I am spending 20-30% more to buy a horn through an "authorized dealer," I expect it to be 100% set up and ready to go before I hand them my cash. Obviously, some shops are better than others at this. I am not against the brick and mortar dealer experience. When I bought my first new horn I went around and play tested at a bunch of places. Played some nice horns that weren't done any justice at all. I ended up buying a Cannonball Raven from a shop that was a dealer for Cannonball, P Mauriat, Selmer and Yanagisawa. The tech was there when I was playing them, and every horn on the wall played beautifully. The Cannonball was the best horn (IMHO) I had played that was in my price range, and I bought it on the spot. Even though the tech had said he had gone through it already, he insisted on going through it with me to make sure all pads were seating well, and that I was happy with everything about it...Great service!!!

On a side note, of those four major brands he carried (there were a couple lower line student horns mostly for rental programs) he said that the Cannonballs were by far and away in the best playing condition when he received them. Yanagisawa and Mauriat were not bad either, but he said he spends a lot of time setting up the Selmers. Funny, they are also the most expensive for him to stock...They all sounded really good though!

 

[Dave Dolson]

I'm wondering if a retailer's pre-sale set-up would identify poor glue? I agree that a seller must play-test a new instrument before sale - poor construction and shipping from the manufacturer can cause a new instrument's faults and those issues should be corrected before sale. And of course, shipping to the buyer can be equally problematic.

But if the manufacturer used glue instead of shellac to seat the original pads, "how do it know?" The selling dealer may be able to bend key-cups back over a tone hole, or re-align a pad for better sealing, or replace a missing felt or cork, but that's about all. I doubt if they'd get into a total pad replacement program.

I have experienced good dealers' set-ups - and played some that needed some attention. The almost new Custom Z I got from a fellow SOTW member had been properly set-up by the local seller (Anaheim Band) and was the best Z I'd played. When I bought new instruments from WW&BW, I always spoke personally to their saxophone specialist and asked for (and paid for) some extra effort in selection and set-up. Did they do what I paid for? I THINK so - everything I received from them was top-notch. DAVE

 

[smonkman]

I bought a 82Z tenor 4 years ago and haven't had to have a single adjustment made. I take it to my tech every 6 months to have it looked over but there hasn't every been anything for him to fix. Maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[milandro]

But if the manufacturer used glue instead of shellac to seat the original pads, "how do it know?" The selling dealer may be able to bend key-cups back over a tone hole, or re-align a pad for better sealing, or replace a missing felt or cork, but that's about all. I doubt if they'd get into a total pad replacement program.........

there is glue and there is glue ( I think that yamaha is still using shellac by the way) a lot of techs here in Holand use glue. My Super 20 tenor has been recently repadded by a friend with shellac.

I got the horn long ago in a trade and had no idea whether there was glue or shellac under the pads anyway , I was told it was glue BUT my horn had never shown any sign of pads changing their position in all the years that I had the horn. I have had several horns done with glue by a trusted technician and his work has stood the test of time.

 

[Dave Dolson]

I suspect many would interchange the words "glue" and shellac" anyway. After all, whatever they use makes the pads stick in the cups (I am not claiming one is better than the other - just mentioning how words mean different things to different people). And that was part of my point - someone buys a new saxophone and it plays well (like smonkman's tenor or my 20+ year old YSS62S) so as long as the horn plays and needs no adjustments, it doesn't matter. Nor would a store delivering anew saxophone know what was used to stick the pads in the cups. If the yet-to-be-delivered saxophone needs a pad re-floated, heat the cup, float the pad, make sure it seals and it is over with. DAVE

 

[clarnibass]

I suspect many would interchange the words "glue" and shellac" anyway.

Yes, not only that, but shellac is a type of hot glue really. It melts from heat and is used to glue so...
I disagree with William Bua's post that using hot glue (and I understand that to mean all hot glues that are not shellac) cause a problem of new saxophones getting out of adjustment. Some hot glues (that aren't shellac) work just fine with none of those problems.

Nor would a store delivering anew saxophone know what was used to stick the pads in the cups.

Yes, but they can have a pretty good idea based on previous saxophones of the same model, if they had a chance to check any. Of course a company can change the type of glue etc.

If the yet-to-be-delivered saxophone needs a pad re-floated, heat the cup, float the pad, make sure it seals and it is over with.

Unfortunately not true. That is, the part about "make sure it seals" is correct but it is usually not anywhere as easy as that most of the time.
It is relatively rare that a company uses enough glue behind the pad to float it. It is not so common anymore for companies to use even enough glue behind the pads to hold them reliably with no air gaps (but not enough to float, which isn't necessary at all anyway). That is sometimes a reason for adjustment issues, not enough glue to hold the pads securely and reliably i.e. air gaps not offering enough support to the back of the pad. It is extremely rare tht you can float a new pad.

 

[playatsax]

With all due respect to SWPerry1, where I bought my horn is immaterial. It played well for a couple of months, but then micro-leaks began to develop. I was only trying to put the OP at ease. While an instrument may be play-ready when bought, it is important to note that with the high number of moving parts that are in a saxophone, it's relatively safe to say that a break-in period may be required. I don't care what brand you play, or when it was set up, adjustments will be necessary, (some sooner, some later, depending on usage).