[The Big Woo]

Just some honest, rambling thoughts and questions.....
So I have not seen much activity on the Antigua thread lately, which is too bad. Add to that the fact that I see a few dealers closing out their Antigua Powerbell inventories (and I think their entire Antigua lines in general) and this has raised some flags in my mind (What is happening with Antigua distribution in the USA?) Is the marketing just not there?
I think that a lot of players have played or listened to the Ponzol Pro One and come away impressed. I have been enjoying playing back-and-forth between a black nickel Powerbell tenor and a Buescher Top Hat & Cane tenor from the early 1950's and I am struck by how similar the sonic qualities are with these two tenors. The clear lacquer Powerbell I had played last year was darker than this individual black nickel tenor with the same reed/mpc and while they are both very resonant, the black nickel has something "extra" that I really enjoy from the players' side of the horn.

I have not played the G42 tenor but it appears to be an attempt to capture the Mark VI characteristics.

I have also not played the Model 25, but have listened to a few of them live at the Macky Auditorium Concert Hall and they sounded quite superb. The Model 25 boasts of the Cryo freezing treatment and I'm not sure if that is the same as the annealing process used on all Powerbells, or if the annealing process is different ?????? :?:

And then there's the TS5200, which I guess is similar to a Mauriat Master 97 or a Selmer Serie III :?: ??????? I've never come across one yet, but am guessing that they are not as free blowing as the Powerbell.

Antigua seems to be putting out some quality products but I'm seeing them less and less, locally anyways. I hope that they are doing pretty well overall. I see a lot more marketing coming out of the Mauriat camp. I can't even find one single clip of Antigua at NAMM 2020.

Just some thoughts...... I like the Antigua tenors that I've spent time with a lot.

 

[saxcop]

I have a pro one alto and think it is very good. I also think one difference between Antigua and Pmauriat is that Antigua has been in the student market for a long time. Kind of like Jupiter. I think the Pro Models are excellent but the name brand suffers from the student association.

 

[The Big Woo]

I have a pro one alto and think it is very good. I also think one difference between Antigua and Pmauriat is that Antigua has been in the student market for a long time. Kind of like Jupiter. I think the Pro Models are excellent but the name brand suffers from the student association.

I think that you bring up a very strong point. There sure are a ton of great and affordable options coming out of Asia right now. It is getting hard to keep up with them all.

 

[rcpayne]

If anyone tells you its got the cryogenic treatment, run the other way as fast as you can. It's just a lot of BS about freezing the horn which allegedly does something remarkable to the tone by aligning all the molecules or some such nonsense. Annealing is something else, it's a heat treatment.

 

[The Big Woo]

If anyone tells you its got the cryogenic treatment, run the other way as fast as you can. It's just a lot of BS about freezing the horn which allegedly does something remarkable to the tone by aligning all the molecules or some such nonsense. Annealing is something else, it's a heat treatment.

Good to know. Thanks. If super-heating and then super-cooling saxophones and then playing them to define the tonal differences is a good paying career option, I chose the wrong career path! :razz::razz:

 

[G8rDuc]

I can tell you that there is a struggle in man power. Since they were taken over last year, their resources have been tightened and it's become a battle to gain more dealers and produce more product due to lack of company support. I love their horns and hope that they can survive the take over.

 

[Reet McVouty]

I can tell you that there is a struggle in man power. Since they were taken over last year, their resources have been tightened and it's become a battle to gain more dealers and produce more product due to lack of company support. I love their horns and hope that they can survive the take over.

Well, if that's the case, stick a fork in them cause they're done. What you've described is the beginning of the end for most companies because as manpower falls off mistakes start to happen. Quality will suffer and demands won't be met. What's happening in Asia is what happens everywhere manufacturing is flourishing. Eventually the workers want better benefits and more money which means the bean counters will make cut backs which eventually derail the business. The cycle continues as now the shift is moving to mainland China as their labor force is still the cheapest. So, the good news is, you will probably still be able to get an Antiqua Winds horn, it just won't be anything like the one you have now.

 

[G8rDuc]

Well, if that's the case, stick a fork in them cause they're done. What you've described is the beginning of the end for most companies because as manpower falls off mistakes start to happen. Quality will suffer and demands won't be met. What's happening in Asia is what happens everywhere manufacturing is flourishing. Eventually the workers want better benefits and more money which means the bean counters will make cut backs which eventually derail the business. The cycle continues as now the shift is moving to mainland China as their labor force is still the cheapest. So, the good news is, you will probably still be able to get an Antiqua Winds horn, it just won't be anything like the one you have now.

I';m not speaking of manpower in manufacturing. I';m talking man power on the states side to promote sales and such. There a very small team and the budget was lowered, I';m sure.

Quality is better than ever and that won';t change, but the team needs help. And sales need to continue to grow.

 

[BigDaddyJ]

This is a bummer. I had a great Mauriat 66R, and I thought the Pro One tenor I tried was better in every way than my 66R.

I've always wanted to try one of their other horns with more focus & core.

Later

JOel

 

[G8rDuc]

I have a pro one alto and think it is very good. I also think one difference between Antigua and Pmauriat is that Antigua has been in the student market for a long time. Kind of like Jupiter. I think the Pro Models are excellent but the name brand suffers from the student association.

That's a huge problem that Antigua has been battling. There are still too many people that associate it with the student line horns from when they first came out. They've come so far since but most stores don't want to carry anything more than Selmer and Yamaha and as a former store manager, I can't blame them. The general public either want pro horns, that have been around for a long time, for themselves or super cheap horns for their kid that is just about to start playing.

 

[G8rDuc]

This is a bummer. I had a great Mauriat 66R, and I thought the Pro One tenor I tried was better in every way than my 66R.

I've always wanted to try one of their other horns with more focus & core.

No reason to be bummed! You can still try them and buy them and get their support!!! They're still available and making beautiful horns!

 

[LostConn]

No reason to be bummed! You can still try them and buy them and get their support!!! They're still available and making beautiful horns!

Well, "available" is an elastic term. The Antigua Winds website has no information at all about dealers or purchase channels. That's not good. Antigua instruments cannot be purchased through SOTW's favorite online dealers (Woodwind and Brasswind, sax.co.uk, Kessler Music -- both sax.co.uk and Kessler used to carry them, but no longer). They apparently aren't sold by Sam Ash either. Antigua's main dealer seems to be ProWinds.com. All in all, from a consumer's point of view, this is pretty weak distribution and marketing.

Also, as this thread suggests, Antigua's product line is cluttered. The company offers three different "Educational" alto saxophone models in addition to the five different "Professional" alto models. The same applies to the tenors. Is there really enough Antigua demand or fulfillment capability to support all these models?

 

[G8rDuc]

To be honest with you, I can't stand WWBW...I consider them a local store killer. Kessler produces their own overseas brand, can't imagine they would carry a competitor.

Have you simply tried calling them? I'm not privy to sales numbers or anything like that, just giving me personal experience with them and what I know is going on.

 

[LostConn]

To be honest with you, I can't stand WWBW...I consider them a local store killer. Kessler produces their own overseas brand, can't imagine they would carry a competitor.

It's not unimaginable, given that Kessler did exactly that until a few years ago. Dave Kessler even wrote an elaborate review of the Antigua Pro One model on his blog (the entry is still there). Anyway, it doesn't matter why a particular retailer isn't selling Antigua horns. The point is that overall, they seem to lack broad, easy availability.

Have you simply tried calling them?

Any company that says, "Call us, and then we'll tell you where you can buy our stuff," is doomed. They need to be pushing that information out, not waiting to be begged for it. As you yourself mentioned above, Antigua's marketing lacks resources, and it shows.

 

[The Big Woo]

Well, "available" is an elastic term. The Antigua Winds website has no information at all about dealers or purchase channels. That's not good. Antigua instruments cannot be purchased through SOTW's favorite online dealers (Woodwind and Brasswind, sax.co.uk, Kessler Music -- both sax.co.uk and Kessler used to carry them, but no longer). They apparently aren't sold by Sam Ash either. Antigua's main dealer seems to be ProWinds.com. All in all, from a consumer's point of view, this is pretty weak distribution and marketing.

Also, as this thread suggests, Antigua's product line is cluttered. The company offers three different "Educational" alto saxophone models in addition to the five different "Professional" alto models. The same applies to the tenors. Is there really enough Antigua demand or fulfillment capability to support all these models?

You guys are all making some great points. I also now see that Saxquest is closing them out as well. This is very unfortunate. G8rDuc, I did not know that they had been absorbed by another Co. Who is the parent Co. now?

 

[G8rDuc]

You guys are all making some great points. I also now see that Saxquest is closing them out as well. This is very unfortunate. G8rDuc, I did not know that they had been absorbed by another Co. Who is the parent Co. now?

US Band.

LostConn, I don't disagree with you for the most part. But if someone is seriously looking for a horn, they usually go to the source. Especially when it's a specialty horn. If you look at the CE Winds thread, they offered their horns through their own company and people loved them. If they make a quality product, people will seek them out. The money to keep a company in business doesn't lie within the pro horn market for the most part, most of it lies within the student market and that's where they suffer because they can't get the brick and mortar stores to carry their horns. How do you change that when you're battling giants like Yamaha?

 

[The Big Woo]

US Band.

:Shocked: Oh wow, OK. I had no idea.
They own a bunch of companies and I'm pretty sure that they do all of the distribution for P. Mauriat in North America. I wonder if they are so focused on the success of Mauriat that they completely overlooked Antigua.

 

[swperry1]

Glitchy forum double post.

 

[swperry1]

I’m no expert on the market, but I’m on the road a lot and I gig with lots of other horn bands. I’ve never seen an antigua sax in a shop that I can remember in 25 years of going to shops all over the country. Also never seen one in the hands of anyone who isn’t a student. The Proone was advertised on here for years though.

 

[saxcop]

I have a pro one soprano and think its a great horn. I wouldn't mind having a tenor, but don't need another.