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Discussion Starter #1
Andy Sheppard is a fantastic sax player and his tone is equally fantastic. I've just seen on saxophones.co.uk and the P Mauriat site that Andy is an endorsee.

If Andy believes that the Mauriat saxes are as good as his old Mk VI and likes the ergos and tone, then they have got to be good. They must be worth a look at.

However there does seem to be rather a lot of endorsees, am I missing something here or am I just being a tad cynical? Why aren't we all playing them?
 

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The endorsement was obtained by my sax teacher, who started playing because of Andy Sheppard and has himself changed from Selmers to P Mauriat. That's not to say that Sheppard is bound to bin his MkVI, but I can confirm that he loves the P Mauriats.

(PS I play Yani, Selmer and Martin)
 

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FWIW (and I realise it's not a lot) I've played two and I think they're really nice in terms of tone and ergos and they certainly look and feel very solid. For me it was a real toss up between the SX90R and a PM and TBH I'm still not sure I made the right decision. I went for the safer option but three months later I am still finding low C to Bb a struggle to reach on this darned JK monster.
 

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I'm convinced they ARE fantastic horns...especially impressive is the 66R tenor. I sold my PM alto recently. I replaced it with a ref 54. I love that alto!
 

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Keep in mind that endorsements mean absolutely NOTHING. There are guys that play the horns that they endorse, and others that don't. Some play them live, but go back to their Mark VI, etc. when recording. Some play them for financial reasons, even though they sound better on other horns. The only reason for buying a horn is if YOU sound good on it.
 

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Nobby Keys said:
Why aren't we all playing them?
I have tried a couple. A 66 tenor, which indeed did have nice playing characteristics but the finish work on the horn wasn't very good. The tone holes had rough edges, and subjectively, I hate the 15 colored abalone key touches (please give me some white pearls). I also tried a nickel silver, which I would strongly discourage acquiring. Some of tone holes on the NS had tine holes in them (on the side) and other seemed to have been filled with some sort of material. They must be having significant problems drawing tone holes on their NS horns (the material is supposedly more difficult to work with). Still temped to get a System 76 but the price is steep for a Taiwanese horn, more than a Yani tenor and a Keilwerth SX-90. Hopefully they will come down if and when the dollar gets out of it's seemingly never ending slump.
 

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Morry said:
Keep in mind that endorsements mean absolutely NOTHING. There are guys that play the horns that they endorse, and others that don't. Some play them live, but go back to their Mark VI, etc. when recording. Some play them for financial reasons, even though they sound better on other horns. The only reason for buying a horn is if YOU sound good on it.
Morry is correct, of course, but well, yeah, endorsements really DO mean something: Free equipment and additional income for the endorsers for the "use of their names" and payment for the "educational clinics" they do with some financial participation or sponsorship by the manufacturer along with the hosting college program.
These clinics are an effective sales tool for the manufacturer since the impressionable attendees see/hear the "famous endorser" playing - and pimping - the product. From the manufacturers point of view it's an very effective form of "paid advertising". For the player, in addition to the extra income, simply being "an endorser" carries the implication that the player is an "important enough" performer to be publicized as "endorsing" some product and this may assist them in getting more bookings. I've recently had dealings with three REALLY top grade players who have become "endorsers" of P. Mauriat horns simply because of the irresistible additional income it provides at a time when "real gigs" are becoming rarer and rarer.
Several major manufacturers have discontinued their "endorsement programs" due to financial constraints and this has driven some genuinely top-line players to "endorse" the lower-cost, higher-profit Taiwanese horns of one brand or another.

It's NEVER, in my experience, due to superiority - or even comparable quality of the "endorsed" instrument line - and is ALWAYS a simple financial arrangement of mutual benefit to the manufacturer and "endorser". It's simply a "persuasive" but somewhat intentionally deceptive form of marketing.

There are some prominent players who are well-known in the business as "endorsement *****s" and have been observed "endorsing" almost any product that pays their price. And then there are some essentially unknown players who are eager to get the publicity afforded them as "prominent artists" in gaudy advertisements by "endorsing" some horn or mouthpiece line.

A little healthy skepticism about the validity of "endorsements" is advised.
 

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I tried them all at the IAJE--some were pretty good, surprisingly good, but not even close to a great MKVI--and Ive been playing a great 73,xxx since 1980, so I think I know a bit.

That being said, if it were between a Mauriat and a brand-new Selmer? Toss-up. Mauriat is less bread, if thats a consideration, you get alot for you $$$.

But it just isnt a MKVI or super-balanced.
 

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Doc Tenny--its rough out here, these days. Lots of players, gigs and venues vanishing year-to-year. I agree with what you say, the clinics are a way to get one's name around.

There are people trying to sustain their careers & name and need the PR. (Its supposed to be the music BUSINESS--even if its jazz, nothing wrong w/that)

And there are young ones, trying to get something happening--there arent that many "sideman" gigs left for a horn player to gain noteriety-if thats what you want in life, you have to use whatever means are out there.

Bottom line: Go to the clinics, hear the players, listen to what they have to say AND, when its time to buy a horn, buy whats right for YOU.

Remember, the tried & true became the tried & true for a reason--it works.
 

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brasscane said:
Still temped to get a System 76 but the price is steep for a Taiwanese horn, more than a Yani tenor and a Keilwerth SX-90. Hopefully they will come down if and when the dollar gets out of it's seemingly never ending slump.
Steen, call Check Levins, last november they were selling it for 2100$. Maybe their price climb is temporary over...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ol' Mpc Doc said:
A little healthy skepticism about the validity of "endorsements" is advised.
I think that just about sums it up.

So budget aside, try before you buy.

Thanks
 

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When I decided that I wanted an additional tenor to beef up my arsenal I chose a Mauriat. Not for the "cheesy" name, in spite of questionable marketing ploys — "Paris", give me a break! — and certainly not because of any professional endorsements. I was more impressed by the enthusiastic reports of players on forums such as this and the recommendation of repair shops. It's worth noting, as well, that when I purchased the horn from SaxQuest, they rejected two of them for quality problems connected with tone holes. I'm happy to say that the one that was finally shipped has been more than satisfactory. Yes, I can see it now, P. Mauriat Saxophones, endorsed by Shotgun"
 

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Ol' Mpc Doc said:
Morry is correct, of course, but well, yeah, endorsements really DO mean something: Free equipment and additional income for the endorsers for the "use of their names" and payment for the "educational clinics" they do with some financial participation or sponsorship by the manufacturer along with the hosting college program.
These clinics are an effective sales tool for the manufacturer since the impressionable attendees see/hear the "famous endorser" playing - and pimping - the product. From the manufacturers point of view it's an very effective form of "paid advertising". For the player, in addition to the extra income, simply being "an endorser" carries the implication that the player is an "important enough" performer to be publicized as "endorsing" some product and this may assist them in getting more bookings. I've recently had dealings with three REALLY top grade players who have become "endorsers" of P. Mauriat horns simply because of the irresistible additional income it provides at a time when "real gigs" are becoming rarer and rarer.
Several major manufacturers have discontinued their "endorsement programs" due to financial constraints and this has driven some genuinely top-line players to "endorse" the lower-cost, higher-profit Taiwanese horns of one brand or another.

It's NEVER, in my experience, due to superiority - or even comparable quality of the "endorsed" instrument line - and is ALWAYS a simple financial arrangement of mutual benefit to the manufacturer and "endorser". It's simply a "persuasive" but somewhat intentionally deceptive form of marketing.

There are some prominent players who are well-known in the business as "endorsement *****s" and have been observed "endorsing" almost any product that pays their price. And then there are some essentially unknown players who are eager to get the publicity afforded them as "prominent artists" in gaudy advertisements by "endorsing" some horn or mouthpiece line.

A little healthy skepticism about the validity of "endorsements" is advised.
Man. This should be a sticky! :cheers:
 

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rispoli said:
Steen, call Check Levins, last november they were selling it for 2100$. Maybe their price climb is temporary over...
Thanks Andrea. I would except the condo I live in keeps coming up with new disasters. Every time I think I have money, something new seems to happen. Nothing like construction in Boston. If saxes were built as crappy as houses in this city one would need to buy a new horn about once a week.
 

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Ol' Mpc Doc said:
Morry is correct, of course, but well, yeah, endorsements really DO mean something: Free equipment and additional income for the endorsers for the "use of their names" and payment for the "educational clinics" they do with some financial participation or sponsorship by the manufacturer along with the hosting college program.
These clinics are an effective sales tool for the manufacturer since the impressionable attendees see/hear the "famous endorser" playing - and pimping - the product. From the manufacturers point of view it's an very effective form of "paid advertising". For the player, in addition to the extra income, simply being "an endorser" carries the implication that the player is an "important enough" performer to be publicized as "endorsing" some product and this may assist them in getting more bookings. I've recently had dealings with three REALLY top grade players who have become "endorsers" of P. Mauriat horns simply because of the irresistible additional income it provides at a time when "real gigs" are becoming rarer and rarer.
Several major manufacturers have discontinued their "endorsement programs" due to financial constraints and this has driven some genuinely top-line players to "endorse" the lower-cost, higher-profit Taiwanese horns of one brand or another.

It's NEVER, in my experience, due to superiority - or even comparable quality of the "endorsed" instrument line - and is ALWAYS a simple financial arrangement of mutual benefit to the manufacturer and "endorser". It's simply a "persuasive" but somewhat intentionally deceptive form of marketing.

There are some prominent players who are well-known in the business as "endorsement *****s" and have been observed "endorsing" almost any product that pays their price. And then there are some essentially unknown players who are eager to get the publicity afforded them as "prominent artists" in gaudy advertisements by "endorsing" some horn or mouthpiece line.

A little healthy skepticism about the validity of "endorsements" is advised.
Actually,

Yamaha does NOT pay their endorsers. They do get special pricing but are not paid. Check it out. I saw a video with Phil Woods discussing this and he was lamenting the fact he was not paid. I wish I could find it. I will look. But all endorsers are not paid.
 

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semipro said:
Actually,

Yamaha does NOT pay their endorsers. They do get special pricing but are not paid. Check it out. I saw a video with Phil Woods discussing this and he was lamenting the fact he was not paid. I wish I could find it. I will look. But all endorsers are not paid.
According to some of my "endorser" clients, Selmer and Keilwerth also do not make direct payments to their endorsers any longer. Without "naming names", I alluded to this in my original post on this thread.
 

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Even if the manufacturers don't make cash payments, and I don't how you could verify that, they still provide advertising and promotional support that has monetary value.

I still believe that there is some monetary transaction there. Otherwise, why would an artist who is on a grueling tour take the time to go to a school or store and do a clinic for Yamaha, Selmer, etc.? There must be some remuneration for that.
 

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For those who are interested in PM horns, I would recommend you try the black pearl model (mine is a tenor). The three measures I based my decision to buy it were sound, feel, and look. The horn passed the test on those three counts!
 

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Usually the deal is, if you run a school or place where you are putting on a clinic, you have to pay the artist, right? (Unless Chris Potter is your brother-in-law and is doing you a solid:) )

If you want a guy who is a Selmer or Yamaha clinician, the company will SUBSIDIZE THE CLINIC, like pay 1/2 of the artists fee--but you still have to come up with the other half. (unless your cello teacher is James Carter's 2nd cousin & he's doing her a favor:) )

So...indirectly they are paid somewhat by the company, but....

Ive noticed that, some companies have different deals that others, I think that some will give you ONE free instrument, and if you want a different one later, you have to trade it back. Others, I think Yamaha, has an endorsers discount across the board on any you buy. Ive seen Yani japan be pretty generous with some of my friends, giving them quite a few horns & discounts to their students.

Bottom line, like I said before, go to the clinics & enjoy, but when it comes time to buy, buy the one whats right for YOU.
 
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