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An Important Message From Mouthpiece Maker Phil Barone

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An Open Letter to Saxophonists, Aspiring Saxophonists and all Musicians from Phil Barone

This text is not meant to be controversial nor condescending in any way nor was it written to denigrate, or discourage anyone or disregard their personal experiences but rather to help enlighten players, especially younger players to myths, false beliefs, and cognitive distortions* that are prevalent in the world of musicians based on my experience having worked for many saxophone players. I have nothing to gain by writing it and in fact it will probably do more harm to me than good but it may help chip away at what I believe to be an illusion perpetrated by many of the younger generation of saxophone players and musicians and the music accessory industry. It may not apply to you.

After thirty-seven years customizing and making mouthpieces and selling saxophones for great and not so great musicians and playing the sax for longer, I have decided to speak out against the folklore that’s prevalent these days since I’ve come to believe these myths are destructive to artists creativity and aspiring musicians which are frequently spurred on by a very few great players and novices on the internet. As a result, I’ve seen many saxophonists pursue and obsess with a vengeance what is actually a minuscule difference in sound between two pieces of gear that’s cancelled out, eclipsed or transcended by a different reed, a different room or mic that they miss the significance of the music itself.

My experience playing the sax and making mouthpieces for almost forty years has led me to come to the conclusion that switching and searching for your sound is largely not a function of the mouthpiece or gear and that it’s been blown out of proportion by young and inexperienced players touting their “great” new mouthpiece on forums and businesses that just want to promote sales and stories of a very few great artists obsessing on their equipment. I’ve come to believe that pursuing equipment beyond a certain point is largely counter-productive to one’s creativity and is fueled by an obsession for a perfect tone or ideology that doesn’t exist and is fruitless. John Coltrane who is known to have aggressively pursued the holy grail of mouthpieces had already arrived and attained a very high level of artistry so the vast majority of players should not let his pursuit of the ultimate mouthpiece influence them and Trane didn’t do this until he reached a very high level. That is what I believe artists should be striving for, not reaching outside of themselves for instant gratification.

I feel that in recent years with the advent and proliferation of so many brands of mouthpieces and equipment in general, the obsession with them and equipment in general has grown out of proportion to the number of great music happening and musicians, not just saxophone players.

I’ve worked for many great and not so great players. For instance, Sonny Rollins, Jackie Mclean, Steve Grossman, Bob Sheppard, Ernie Watts, Stanley Turrentine, Mike Brecker, “Blue” Lou Marini, Eric Alexander, Dave Tofani, Lawrence Feldman, Ronnie Cuber, Nick Brignola, Roger Rosenberg, Ravi Coltrane, Lee Konitz and Frank Vicari to mention just a few and have noticed that the essential artists don’t switch gear often but was rather an afterthought to practicing, studying and studying. Sonny Rollins only had seven mouthpieces his whole career and has been playing the same mouthpiece and sax since the 60’s. Jackie Mclean only had about five or six, Steve Grossman only had several, Ernie Watts only had a few but has played the same one for many years. Stanley Turrentine only had several mouthpieces his whole career and when his vintage Link gave out, he bought a new Otto Link considered inferior by many players and he sounded fantastic on it. Joe Henderson played a Selmer D, considered by many to be a poor choice for a jazz mouthpiece but he was one of the greatest players that ever lived and to the best of my knowledge never switched in many years. Wayne Shorter played one mouthpiece for decades. Dexter Gordon was known to have only two mouthpieces during his entire professional career. In photos of Bird he is only seen with a three, maybe four mouthpieces, Cannonball was only known to play one mouthpiece his whole career and his sound became the standard by which to emulate on the alto sax. Ronnie Cuber, probably the greatest bari player that’s ever lived has only owned a few mouthpieces his whole professional career, two Bergs, two Links and a Francois Louie. Pepper Adams is known to have only two and he didn’t switch until his Berg Larson became unplayable. But these facts are overshadowed by the industry and propaganda spread by businesses and the ignorant.
There are exceptions such as John Coltrane but when you reach that level then maybe you can explore other options but until you reach that level it’s best, in my opinion to stick to one and develop a sound on it and learn to play it and learn to be happy with what you have. But for many, the mindset has changed and the emphasis on equipment and the need for instant gratification has grown out of proportion to the dedication it takes to be a truly great artist.

Mike Brecker sounded fantastic and modern and dynamic on a closed tip-opening mouthpiece, an old four star model Link. He sounded fantastic on any mouthpiece because he transcended his gear. That’s what great players do and certainly nobody is going to know which neck you’re using one night on the gig but people will take notice if you play original and dynamic lines. I know a player from NYC now residing in CA who doesn’t have a pleasing tone to my personal ear but his ideas are so exciting I don’t want to stop listening to him! His playing is dynamic and his ideas are always fresh. I’ve heard players of debatable quality complain about Jackie Mclean’s intonation but few players ever reach the soulfulness, originality and excitement as he did not to mention his humanistic qualities.

However, a contributing factor to this equipment frenzy may be due to the fact that there is so much sub-standard gear on the market causing players to be missing something in their sound which perpetuates a craving causing a player to be in a constant search and it could also be that the internet has popularized players who are quick to delve out advice who lack a discerning ear and taste which has eroded the quality of music. As with most people, many musicians lack taste and finesse. Furthermore, the newer brands of musical equipment, while may be more in tune, louder and responsive has been manufactured to be easier to play therefore causing an instantaneous attraction to it which doesn’t enable the player to phrase like something that requires more effort and requires less use of one’s body causing a lack of individual tone among many musicians. Our individuality is being lost due to laziness and a lust for volume and quick response.
Tone, while important, is not as important as playing creative and exciting ideas but it’s a lot more work to do that than to switch gear. For most it requires introspection and nurturing one’s talent away from their instrument.

There are other things you can do such as psychoanalysis, meditation, chanting, yoga, reading inspiring things, pray, FOCUS. I know a group of pianists that do Qi-Gong and Tai Chi. Learn to get in the zone and not reach outside of yourself. Herbie Hancock chants, Sonny Rollins has meditated since the sixties. I studied for many years with jazz piano great Sal Mosca, a Lennie Tristano student, and he recommended to his students that they all pursue psychoanalysis. My advice after seeing so many saxophone players search for that “special” mouthpiece is to find one good mouthpiece then stick to it. It takes a long time to learn how to play a mouthpiece since every time you switch reeds it’s like switching mouthpieces. A piece of equipment should be a vehicle to the sound you hear in your head, it’s not there to alter your personal sound per se and volume should be a secondary consideration but I’ve seen thousands of saxophone players get so hung up on very small differences between two or more mouthpieces, differences that are eclipsed by different reeds that they miss the point of the music itself. Musicians frequently get so obsessed on miniscule difference between two pieces of gear they miss the point of creating beautiful music. Piano players rarely switch pianos and know that playing an instrument like a Steinway as opposed to a Yamaha takes time to cultivate the tone, to draw the sound out of the instrument thereby creating a unique and beautiful sound.

While I believe that there’s a lot of sub-par mouthpieces available, that special mouthpiece is a myth and while you may experience a dramatic result in two mouthpieces of very different designs, nobody will know if you’re playing gear of similar design and nobody is going to know it if you’re playing your 82XXX Mark VI or your 125XXX VI, nobody. Sonny has been playing his re-lacquered 132XXX VI for fifty years and equipment doesn’t interest him because he’s dedicated to the music in a profound way. Vladimir Horowitz played the same piano from the early 40’s up until his death in 89. Mike Brecker, played his 86XXX VI for decades and when that got out everyone searched and paid a premium for them but when Mike flew out to Tenor Madness to find a second horn since his was failing from the beating he gave it, he found that Randy Jones had covered the serial numbers with black tape. After several days of trying horns Mike settled on one and when he pulled the tape off found that it was a 125XXX. Myths such as certain serial number horns being superior permeate musician’s worlds and distracts them from their primary purpose and to give you an idea of the dedication it takes to be great, Mike told me that he listened to Coltrane records so much that they turned red. Sonny practiced endlessly on a bridge and went to India to find himself. I could go on.

*A cognitive distortion is a term used in psychology for a belief that one has that isn’t true. Hope all are well. Phil
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To the original post:
I think there are two main reasons in searching for a mouthpiece: a) sound b) playability.
The latter is where I guffaw and shake my head--when mouthpiece makers (some on this forum) tout how their mouthpiece is the ultimately player, better than any modern vintage Link/Meyer or whatever. My Meyer USA 7 I bought for like $90 in the '90s has been my go-to mouthpiece for alto. I may subjectively like other sounds, but if I can't pop altissimo on this mpc, or play articulately it's entirely my fault. A well-refaced cheap modern mouthpiece will get the job done just as well as some boutique mouthpiece.

Tone is where I enjoy buying and selling mouthpieces. Not better, just different. Sure the difference may be 5% from one Link to the next, but that 5% is still fun to explore. Moreover, it rarely changes my main mouthpiece.

Where I think he's off-base though is where he says "the hobby mentality is a kind of apathy or depression or brain fog"--when you're pulling 10-hour work days and have other life commitments, you can't always fully devote yourself to the music.
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Where I think he's off-base though is where he says "the hobby mentality is a kind of apathy or depression or brain fog"--when you're pulling 10-hour work days and have other life commitments, you can't always fully devote yourself to the music.
Yeah. COULD I quit my job, practice 8 hours a day and get good enough to "play music full time", yeah I honestly think I could. Do I want to take a 75% pay cut in order to do it? Hell no.

I know some pros here locally, and they HUSTLE so hard to make a living. People with good attitudes and a mountain of talent worried about how they're going to pay the bills that month. And listen, I'm sure there are plenty of pros who do just fine, but for the majority I'd imagine it's not an easy life financially.

So I have a day job and I play on weekends and rehearse on weeknights and practice on my own when I can. It's rewarding AF. If that makes me a loser or depressed or whatever, then so be it.

Phil is way, way off-base here. If I didn't know better, and maybe I don't, I'd say he's projecting a lot of his own insecurities into these posts.
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.....and to bring it into the current age, Dave Liebman, Jerry Bergonzi, Joel Frahm, Bob Mintzer, Chad LB (although he plays SYOS, every time I see a video he has a different colored mouthpiece.......), MIchael Brecker and all his mouthpieces......, Joshua Redman, Melissa Aldana, Mark Turner, Seamus Blake........

All these players, have switched mouthpieces. Some more than others. If it doesn't matter........ then why do they search?
Steve. I have a huge beef with this statement.

You didn't include my name with those players

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"As for hobbyists, I never did hobby or mediocre. I believe if you're going to do something than go for it but that's just me. I've always felt that the hobby mentality is a kind of apathy or depression or brain fog. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking like this, I don't know but to be honest, it's not easy being me but I wouldn't want to be any other way either."

Ok Phil, saw your point of view in the first post and now you've gone off the rails! Not necessarily depression but brain fog is a possibility! Come on man, shake yourself! You're doing damage to your reputation at this point that could have fallout for your horn business since I'm guessing a lot of your customers are those lame hobbyists. Sheesh...
Okay Jerry, you're right. I did go off a bit. I looked up the word hobby and it turns out I have one. My hobby is harassing my kid. It's so much fun! Phil
And for the record, I'm not in the least bit bitter or jealous, my life is amazing and I wish everyone tremendous success, just not at other peoples expense. And my horns are made in Taiwan, not China but that's an established fact and the engraving is flawless. Anyone that doesn't like one can return it for a complete refund and I pay the shipping both ways. My point of view comes from seeing first hand hundred of players put gear above what's important.
I didn't want to embarrass you by lumping you in with those mediocre players...........
Ya. Good call.

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Yeah. COULD I quit my job, practice 8 hours a day and get good enough to "play music full time", yeah I honestly think I could. Do I want to take a 75% pay cut in order to do it? Hell no.
I guess some of the distractions in the discussion is just this. Some of us, like me, are truly playing sax as a hobby and some others to make a living. For people like me, it is difficult to even to decide what kind of tip opening would work for me best if I already decided to buy a certain mp. Then I should understand what kind of tip opening and reed combination works best for me. I understood that Phil Barone was trying to point out the endless variables that you can't control when you get in the "shopping mode". Therefore, I believe his open letter has a lot of substance that especially players like myself, doing it only as a hobby, should understand better.

Now, the long list of star players with their mouthpiece preferences, that has been displayed here, made me think about something else. They have certainly recorded using two or more different mouthpieces. When you listen to those recordings, can you tell the difference?? Gerry Mulligan, one of my all time favorite players, was very specific about his mouthpieces. On his album "What is there to say?", in my opinion one of the best jazz albums ever made, his sound is just incredibly pure and beautiful. I know, that I can never reach that sound, because you can hear that it is he who makes it, not the gear. Yes, he was very touchy about his gear, but still... Funny, but the closest I ever got to that sound was with a Rico Metalite M7 and not with my Selmer S80, Otto Link or Mayer (ebonites).

So, there are no rules. At least rules that I can understand. I understood from Phil Barone's text that he was trying to point out that this trial and error method that I'm also very guilty of, is not likely to give you the answer you are looking for. Lately I have realized that for a player like me, playability is the major issue. If the mouthpiece is easy to play, you can focus on the musicality and sound.
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And for the record, I'm not in the least bit bitter or jealous, my life is amazing and I wish everyone tremendous success, just not at other peoples expense. And my horns are made in Taiwan, not China but that's an established fact and the engraving is flawless. Anyone that doesn't like one can return it for a complete refund and I pay the shipping both ways. My point of view comes from seeing first hand hundred of players put gear above what's important.
Just because you say it doesn't make it an established fact. The engravings on your horns are crude compared to the numerous other brands of Taiwan horns that I have owned. Chinese like on the Barone

Human body Human leg High heels Boot Metal
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.....and to bring it into the current age, Dave Liebman, Jerry Bergonzi, Joel Frahm, Bob Mintzer, Chad LB (although he plays SYOS, every time I see a video he has a different colored mouthpiece.......), MIchael Brecker and all his mouthpieces......, Joshua Redman, Melissa Aldana, Mark Turner, Seamus Blake........

All these players, have switched mouthpieces. Some more than others. If it doesn't matter........ then why do they search? Why did they switch? These are some of the best of the best. If they are searching and switching at times, might there be something involved here of importance.......... Just a thought.........

As I have said before, when you have a passion that motivates you, you are obsessed with the pursuit of becoming better........Yes, I would say it is overkill for a player who is in his first 1-3 years of playing to be buying countless Florida Links, Guardalas, Freddie Gregory's etc........ Just play a Yamaha student mouthpiece and learn the tar out of the fundamentals. After 3 years, try a bunch of pieces and pick one that does it for you. After that many years you can play a bit and you know what you like. BUT! then stay on that piece for another 2 years at least continuing to practice and mature. After two years, you have been playing 5 years, do whatever you want.......
Steve, I don't think the average player is on the same level as the guys you mention and you'd have to see the vast majority of my clients. I've known Mintzer for thirty-five years and he's had three mouthpieces in all that time and he personally told me "I'm not into mouthpieces". I worked for Brecker and he wasn't obsessed with mouthpieces at all. He experimented but wasn't obsessed with them like I see going on these days among young and inspiring players and with all due respect your website helps fuel it.

But my point is, what are you doing for your music today, practicing, listening, master classes, theory or looking on the web at forums where ignorance is so prevalent? Hows your theory? Hows your piano playing, harmony? You want to be a professional? Hows your clarinet and flute playing? This propaganda that the industry and people who just have selfish needs is the epitome of ignorance and contributes to the downfall of jazz saxophone.

Even when I was in the business I didn't push mouthpieces on anybody that didn't need one because I wasn't driven by money, I was never a money oriented person. I made two mouthpieces a week and money wasn't my goal, helping people was. What's your motivation for your mouthpiece site? Nobody is going to sound like you or anybody else does on a particular mouthpiece or horn so what's the point? Obsession or not, a mouthpiece isn't going to make you better and those guys know it and as for people like Bergonzi or anyone on his level that so obsessed with gear, they're chasing something that's a fantasy or he would have found one by now. It doesn't exist and Jerry's obsession is driven by some neurosis, not becoming a better musician. It's a sickness for some people, not all but many.

I've been playing since 68 and I've had one mouthpiece on tenor for thirty years and two on baritone and although I made better ones I didn't switch because I was used to it and I knew all the time what it was going to do with any number of reeds I put on it. No, at some point the mouthpiece and gear obsession craze should be put to bed. That's my opinion, take what you like and leave the rest. Phil
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Just because you say it doesn't make it an established fact. The engravings on your horns are crude compared to the numerous other brands of Taiwan horns that I have owned. Chinese like on the Barone

View attachment 241932
Looks great to me. I've had twenty Mark VI's and my horns look just as good. But you've been critical for me for a while now, why I'm not exactly sure. You said in one post that you're in the business and you have fifty horns but you never give your name, never try to sell on here and nobody knows who you are. What's the deal?
Just because you say it doesn't make it an established fact. The engravings on your horns are crude compared to the numerous other brands of Taiwan horns that I have owned. Chinese like on the Barone

View attachment 241932
The engraving on my Barone tenor is is flawless...and I could care less...what's important to me is how it plays...and it plays very well...
Oh, and I made a dynamite lunch for my girlfriend today, portobello mushrooms stuffed with broccoli rabe sauteed in olive oil and lots of garlic then sprinkled with red pepper flakes. Delicious! And Bill freakin Evans had a crappy Chickering piano. Bon appetite!
I was never a money oriented person. Phil
I have watched this thread for awhile now, and I again have a need to speak up.

Phil, It is agreed that you have worked with many famous saxophonists. I just did't like seeing that in your earlier post you had to name them all just to justify your point. I think many of the people here on SOTW know who you are and what you have done.

Maybe more than 20 years ago I had you put an epoxy baffle in a Meyer alto MPC for me, and we agreed that you would take a NY Meyer alto as payment (they were maybe going for about $450 at that time). We agreed to that. When you returned my Meyer it looked as if you just slapped in some epoxy. There was no hand finishing. Nothing fancy. I could of done the same thing at that time. Did I complain, no, because WE agreed. You did the work and shame on me for not doing more research.

As a repair tech, my mentor had personal contact with you, and always said you were always looking at stealing other's ideas but that is another story.

I have seen and played mouthpieces you have made and never been blown away.

Now, back to what got me going today on this post is what you said about you were "never a money oriented person". You made and did work on mouthpieces and made horns, etc. I'm sure making money was a factor or else you wouldn't of stopped when it didn't become hugely successful.

Again, I have nothing but respect and I wish you further luck, but just calling it like I see it.
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What's your motivation for your mouthpiece site?
To answer your question, 95% of my income comes from teaching. Since 2007 I have written 15 books and made over 600+ video lessons on jazz and saxophone. A few years ago, I decided I was wasting too much time and money reviewing mouthpieces. Some I would buy and lose money on the resale, many I would be stuck paying for shipping and the cost of reeds which was and is ridiculous. I decided to start asking to keep the mouthpieces I review as I saw that that is what other review sites did. Selling a used a mouthpiece once a week that I reviewed is in no way making me rich. If anything, I'm just trying to keep my site costs covered by it. I do not have a cheap site on godaddy or hostgator. The costs can add up to run a site that is fast and doesn't crash all the time.

The reason I do what I do is passion and love. Trust me, it is not money or I would be doing something else. Probably anything else. I love playing the saxophone. I love teaching the saxophone. I love trying new saxophone gear. I don't think that is evil or that I am ruining the future of jazz saxophone. I have some containers in my office with my mouthpieces. Yesterday, I took out my Barone SNY, my Barone Jazz JB (I think you said that was Bronze), a few Links and some other mouthpieces I have. I have other pieces in that box as well all separated and protected by cushioning. All these pieces are important to me. Not for the money, not for the collection. They are important to me for the feeling I get when I put them on my sax and play them. They are all different. The tone is different, the response is different, the intonation is different, the brightness and darkness is different. When I put one of these pieces on with a great reed I am in heaven. That's what excites me. That's what fuels this journey I am on. I am like you in that it's not about the money. I just need enough to get by and sometimes I have to sell some mouthpieces and run some sales to pay my bills that month.

The fact that you are implying that it's about the money hurts my feelings honestly. But maybe that is because all you look at on my site is the mouthpiece review side of it and haven't watched my teaching videos. I am not the best player in the world or even the best teacher but I am passionate about the saxophone and music. I have been told by students that that comes across quite often in my lesson videos and it cracks them up. I enjoy what I am doing and although my wife keeps pressuring me to leave music behind and pursue something more sustainable in my older years, I keep clinging to it. I can't let it go, it has consumed me since 7th grade and probably until I die.

I respect you, and appreciate your contribution to the saxophone world immensely. I might disagree with some of your opinions at times but that is life. I totally agree with you about being in the practice room and progressing musically but I have also had many adult students who's hobby is to collect Selmer saxophone and buy every great mouthpiece they can find. Hey, if that is what you're into, go for it.

(Actually, now that I think about it, maybe this all stems from my childhood. I had a stamp collection, a rock collection, a coin collection, a comic book collection, etc.......maybe some of us are just wired genetically to be collectors. Who knows?? Haha!)
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In the end, we all leave this earth, so make your time here how YOU want it to be.
Its YOUR story, and YOU write the book.
What anyone else says is irrelevant, unless you make it relevant.
Have fun doing it YOUR way.
Follow your passion always.
All the best,
Mark
To answer your question, 95% of my income comes from teaching. Since 2007 I have written 15 books and made over 600+ video lessons on jazz and saxophone. A few years ago, I decided I was wasting too much time and money reviewing mouthpieces. Some I would buy and lose money on the resale, many I would be stuck paying for shipping and the cost of reeds which was and is ridiculous. I decided to start asking to keep the mouthpieces I review as I saw that that is what other review sites did. Selling a used a mouthpiece once a week that I reviewed is in no way making me rich. If anything, I'm just trying to keep my site costs covered by it. I do not have a cheap site on godaddy or hostgator. The costs can add up to run a site that is fast and doesn't crash all the time.

The reason I do what I do is passion and love. Trust me, it is not money or I would be doing something else. Probably anything else. I love playing the saxophone. I love teaching the saxophone. I love trying new saxophone gear. I don't think that is evil or that I am ruining the future of jazz saxophone. I have some containers in my office with my mouthpieces. Yesterday, I took out my Barone SNY, my Barone Jazz JB (I think you said that was Bronze), a few Links and some other mouthpieces I have. I have other pieces in that box as well all separated and protected by cushioning. All these pieces are important to me. Not for the money, not for the collection. They are important to me for the feeling I get when I put them on my sax and play them. They are all different. The tone is different, the response is different, the intonation is different, the brightness and darkness is different. When I put one of these pieces on with a great reed I am in heaven. That's what excites me. That's what fuels this journey I am on. I am like you in that it's not about the money. I just need enough to get by and sometimes I have to sell some mouthpieces and run some sales to pay my bills that month.

The fact that you are implying that it's about the money hurts my feelings honestly. But maybe that is because all you look at on my site is the mouthpiece review side of it and haven't watched my teaching videos. I am not the best player in the world or even the best teacher but I am passionate about the saxophone and music. I have been told by students that that comes across quite often in my lesson videos and it cracks them up. I enjoy what I am doing and although my wife keeps pressuring me to leave music behind and pursue something more sustainable in my older years, I keep clinging to it. I can't let it go, it has consumed me since 7th grade and probably until I die.

I respect you, and appreciate your contribution to the saxophone world immensely. I might disagree with some of your opinions at times but that is life. I totally agree with you about being in the practice room and progressing musically but I have also had many adult students who's hobby is to collect Selmer saxophone and buy every great mouthpiece they can find. Hey, if that is what you're into, go for it.

(Actually, now that I think about it, maybe this all stems from my childhood. I had a stamp collection, a rock collection, a coin collection, a comic book collection, etc.......maybe some of us are just wired genetically to be collectors. Who knows?? Haha!)
Beautifully said. Right from the heart.
Beautifully said. Right from the heart.
Phil's comments - however offensive to some - are likely right from the heart as well.

Compassion to all that are going through Stuff, however it manifests.

Music is what binds us all - whether vocation or avocation. I respect everyone's "right" to make music as they like - just give me an equal right to not have to listen to it. :bluewink:

Tenor - That's what really matters. IMNSHO.
I fully agree that Phil’s comments were from the heart too. He has always been very passionate about what he says.
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