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An Important Message From Mouthpiece Maker Phil Barone

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An Open Letter to Saxophonists, Aspiring Saxophonists and all Musicians from Phil Barone

This text is not meant to be controversial nor condescending in any way nor was it written to denigrate, or discourage anyone or disregard their personal experiences but rather to help enlighten players, especially younger players to myths, false beliefs, and cognitive distortions* that are prevalent in the world of musicians based on my experience having worked for many saxophone players. I have nothing to gain by writing it and in fact it will probably do more harm to me than good but it may help chip away at what I believe to be an illusion perpetrated by many of the younger generation of saxophone players and musicians and the music accessory industry. It may not apply to you.

After thirty-seven years customizing and making mouthpieces and selling saxophones for great and not so great musicians and playing the sax for longer, I have decided to speak out against the folklore that’s prevalent these days since I’ve come to believe these myths are destructive to artists creativity and aspiring musicians which are frequently spurred on by a very few great players and novices on the internet. As a result, I’ve seen many saxophonists pursue and obsess with a vengeance what is actually a minuscule difference in sound between two pieces of gear that’s cancelled out, eclipsed or transcended by a different reed, a different room or mic that they miss the significance of the music itself.

My experience playing the sax and making mouthpieces for almost forty years has led me to come to the conclusion that switching and searching for your sound is largely not a function of the mouthpiece or gear and that it’s been blown out of proportion by young and inexperienced players touting their “great” new mouthpiece on forums and businesses that just want to promote sales and stories of a very few great artists obsessing on their equipment. I’ve come to believe that pursuing equipment beyond a certain point is largely counter-productive to one’s creativity and is fueled by an obsession for a perfect tone or ideology that doesn’t exist and is fruitless. John Coltrane who is known to have aggressively pursued the holy grail of mouthpieces had already arrived and attained a very high level of artistry so the vast majority of players should not let his pursuit of the ultimate mouthpiece influence them and Trane didn’t do this until he reached a very high level. That is what I believe artists should be striving for, not reaching outside of themselves for instant gratification.

I feel that in recent years with the advent and proliferation of so many brands of mouthpieces and equipment in general, the obsession with them and equipment in general has grown out of proportion to the number of great music happening and musicians, not just saxophone players.

I’ve worked for many great and not so great players. For instance, Sonny Rollins, Jackie Mclean, Steve Grossman, Bob Sheppard, Ernie Watts, Stanley Turrentine, Mike Brecker, “Blue” Lou Marini, Eric Alexander, Dave Tofani, Lawrence Feldman, Ronnie Cuber, Nick Brignola, Roger Rosenberg, Ravi Coltrane, Lee Konitz and Frank Vicari to mention just a few and have noticed that the essential artists don’t switch gear often but was rather an afterthought to practicing, studying and studying. Sonny Rollins only had seven mouthpieces his whole career and has been playing the same mouthpiece and sax since the 60’s. Jackie Mclean only had about five or six, Steve Grossman only had several, Ernie Watts only had a few but has played the same one for many years. Stanley Turrentine only had several mouthpieces his whole career and when his vintage Link gave out, he bought a new Otto Link considered inferior by many players and he sounded fantastic on it. Joe Henderson played a Selmer D, considered by many to be a poor choice for a jazz mouthpiece but he was one of the greatest players that ever lived and to the best of my knowledge never switched in many years. Wayne Shorter played one mouthpiece for decades. Dexter Gordon was known to have only two mouthpieces during his entire professional career. In photos of Bird he is only seen with a three, maybe four mouthpieces, Cannonball was only known to play one mouthpiece his whole career and his sound became the standard by which to emulate on the alto sax. Ronnie Cuber, probably the greatest bari player that’s ever lived has only owned a few mouthpieces his whole professional career, two Bergs, two Links and a Francois Louie. Pepper Adams is known to have only two and he didn’t switch until his Berg Larson became unplayable. But these facts are overshadowed by the industry and propaganda spread by businesses and the ignorant.
There are exceptions such as John Coltrane but when you reach that level then maybe you can explore other options but until you reach that level it’s best, in my opinion to stick to one and develop a sound on it and learn to play it and learn to be happy with what you have. But for many, the mindset has changed and the emphasis on equipment and the need for instant gratification has grown out of proportion to the dedication it takes to be a truly great artist.

Mike Brecker sounded fantastic and modern and dynamic on a closed tip-opening mouthpiece, an old four star model Link. He sounded fantastic on any mouthpiece because he transcended his gear. That’s what great players do and certainly nobody is going to know which neck you’re using one night on the gig but people will take notice if you play original and dynamic lines. I know a player from NYC now residing in CA who doesn’t have a pleasing tone to my personal ear but his ideas are so exciting I don’t want to stop listening to him! His playing is dynamic and his ideas are always fresh. I’ve heard players of debatable quality complain about Jackie Mclean’s intonation but few players ever reach the soulfulness, originality and excitement as he did not to mention his humanistic qualities.

However, a contributing factor to this equipment frenzy may be due to the fact that there is so much sub-standard gear on the market causing players to be missing something in their sound which perpetuates a craving causing a player to be in a constant search and it could also be that the internet has popularized players who are quick to delve out advice who lack a discerning ear and taste which has eroded the quality of music. As with most people, many musicians lack taste and finesse. Furthermore, the newer brands of musical equipment, while may be more in tune, louder and responsive has been manufactured to be easier to play therefore causing an instantaneous attraction to it which doesn’t enable the player to phrase like something that requires more effort and requires less use of one’s body causing a lack of individual tone among many musicians. Our individuality is being lost due to laziness and a lust for volume and quick response.
Tone, while important, is not as important as playing creative and exciting ideas but it’s a lot more work to do that than to switch gear. For most it requires introspection and nurturing one’s talent away from their instrument.

There are other things you can do such as psychoanalysis, meditation, chanting, yoga, reading inspiring things, pray, FOCUS. I know a group of pianists that do Qi-Gong and Tai Chi. Learn to get in the zone and not reach outside of yourself. Herbie Hancock chants, Sonny Rollins has meditated since the sixties. I studied for many years with jazz piano great Sal Mosca, a Lennie Tristano student, and he recommended to his students that they all pursue psychoanalysis. My advice after seeing so many saxophone players search for that “special” mouthpiece is to find one good mouthpiece then stick to it. It takes a long time to learn how to play a mouthpiece since every time you switch reeds it’s like switching mouthpieces. A piece of equipment should be a vehicle to the sound you hear in your head, it’s not there to alter your personal sound per se and volume should be a secondary consideration but I’ve seen thousands of saxophone players get so hung up on very small differences between two or more mouthpieces, differences that are eclipsed by different reeds that they miss the point of the music itself. Musicians frequently get so obsessed on miniscule difference between two pieces of gear they miss the point of creating beautiful music. Piano players rarely switch pianos and know that playing an instrument like a Steinway as opposed to a Yamaha takes time to cultivate the tone, to draw the sound out of the instrument thereby creating a unique and beautiful sound.

While I believe that there’s a lot of sub-par mouthpieces available, that special mouthpiece is a myth and while you may experience a dramatic result in two mouthpieces of very different designs, nobody will know if you’re playing gear of similar design and nobody is going to know it if you’re playing your 82XXX Mark VI or your 125XXX VI, nobody. Sonny has been playing his re-lacquered 132XXX VI for fifty years and equipment doesn’t interest him because he’s dedicated to the music in a profound way. Vladimir Horowitz played the same piano from the early 40’s up until his death in 89. Mike Brecker, played his 86XXX VI for decades and when that got out everyone searched and paid a premium for them but when Mike flew out to Tenor Madness to find a second horn since his was failing from the beating he gave it, he found that Randy Jones had covered the serial numbers with black tape. After several days of trying horns Mike settled on one and when he pulled the tape off found that it was a 125XXX. Myths such as certain serial number horns being superior permeate musician’s worlds and distracts them from their primary purpose and to give you an idea of the dedication it takes to be great, Mike told me that he listened to Coltrane records so much that they turned red. Sonny practiced endlessly on a bridge and went to India to find himself. I could go on.

*A cognitive distortion is a term used in psychology for a belief that one has that isn’t true. Hope all are well. Phil
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The real question is - what did Phil have for dinner last night?
Duh... Chinese! :D j/k
Trane was obsessed with mouthpieces, so was Stitt, Schildkraut, Bird (Schildkraut told me all about this; more if you want to hear) ).
I'm interested ! More.. let's here it . PM if you'd rather . Either way, I'm interested !
I'm interested ! More.. let's here it . PM if you'd rather . Either way, I'm interested !
Me too!! Very much so!
Sorry for repeating myself, but I want to touch a little bit the reed issue and how it potentially affects ones mouthpiece experience. As I said somewhere else, I’m not sure at all anymore that you should play mouthpieces with the same reed when you compare them. I say this regardless of their tip opening, which can be exactly the same in inch/mm, but the playability is significantly different. We see it called reed friendliness (don’t know how that is measured) or something on those lines. However, the very different baffle and chamber geometrics require very variable types of reeds. I have noticed this especially with my high/medium baffle mouthpieces. I’m too lazy to measure their facing curves, but just based on the baffle, my feeling is that a high baffle mp is easier to play with harder reeds than the low baffle ones. Correct me if I’m wrong. On the other hand their sound quality decreases much more with softer reeds. I’m actually reluctant to use the word (soft/hard), because e.g. Rico Jazz Select comes with soft, medium or hard option for each number. So the number obviously does not mean hard/soft. How should I then interpret the Rico graftonite/ metalite recommendations (soft/medium/hard) for their tip openings. Is 4S reed soft for the mouthpiece and what is the difference between 3.5H and 4.0S? I’m trying to exaggerate in order to show how difficult it can be.

What I’m trying to say is that it is probably our own fault that we don’t require more accurate data for the reeds that we buy. Fortunately, you can buy many of the reeds as singles (not all tough), which makes your testing process a tiny bit less expensive. At least Legere provides some sort of parallel comparison chart for reeds (thanks for that!), but I haven’t been able to fully utilize it.

Have you tried Jody Espina’s 6 questions? I ended up buying my JJ alto piece based on his recommendation based on the answers to those questions. However, that recommendation is only for tip opening, not any particular reed. I’m super curious to know how that algorithm works. I would love to have something like that for my general use.
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AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM ME:

this seems much ado about very little - personally, as a technically challenged human being (poor motor skills, damaged hands) I need every advantage I can get when it comes to horn, mouthpiece, reeds, et al. The solution? Do what works best for you. Spend the money, don't spend the money. Trane was obsessed with mouthpieces, so was Stitt, Schildkraut, Bird (Schildkraut told me all about this; more if you want to hear); Rollins I am sure was always experimenting. Dolphy, always. McLean in pics has a lot of different pieces. What - me worry?

(and one of the very reasons my playing improved radically from my 30s into my 50s was my discovery of mouthpiece improvements. So what? Listen to the recordings, it's all there).
.....and to bring it into the current age, Dave Liebman, Jerry Bergonzi, Joel Frahm, Bob Mintzer, Chad LB (although he plays SYOS, every time I see a video he has a different colored mouthpiece.......), MIchael Brecker and all his mouthpieces......, Joshua Redman, Melissa Aldana, Mark Turner, Seamus Blake........

All these players, have switched mouthpieces. Some more than others. If it doesn't matter........ then why do they search? Why did they switch? These are some of the best of the best. If they are searching and switching at times, might there be something involved here of importance.......... Just a thought.........

As I have said before, when you have a passion that motivates you, you are obsessed with the pursuit of becoming better........Yes, I would say it is overkill for a player who is in his first 1-3 years of playing to be buying countless Florida Links, Guardalas, Freddie Gregory's etc........ Just play a Yamaha student mouthpiece and learn the tar out of the fundamentals. After 3 years, try a bunch of pieces and pick one that does it for you. After that many years you can play a bit and you know what you like. BUT! then stay on that piece for another 2 years at least continuing to practice and mature. After two years, you have been playing 5 years, do whatever you want.......
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.....and to bring it into the current age, Dave Liebman, Jerry Bergonzi, Joel Frahm, Bob Mintzer, Chad LB (although he plays SYOS, every time I see a video he has a different colored mouthpiece.......), MIchael Brecker and all his mouthpieces......, Joshua Redman, Melissa Aldana, Mark Turner, Seamus Blake........

All these players, have switched mouthpieces. Some more than others. If it doesn't matter........ then why do they search? Why did they switch? These are some of the best of the best. If they are searching and switching at times, might there be something involved here of importance.......... Just a thought.........

As I have said before, when you have a passion that motivates you, you are obsessed with the pursuit of becoming better........Yes, I would say it is overkill for a player who is in his first 1-3 years of playing to be buying countless Florida Links, Guardalas, Freddie Gregory's etc........ Just play a Yamaha student mouthpiece and learn the tar out of the fundamentals. After 3 years, try a bunch of pieces and pick one that does it for you. After that many years you can play a bit and you know what you like. BUT! then stay on that piece for another 2 years at least continuing to practice and mature. After two years, you have been playing 5 years, do whatever you want.......
.....or do whatever you want from the beginning. It's your decision as an adult. The problem with beginners switching within 3 years is that it is so hard to develop consistency with the tools you are using. You are trying to develop a consistent tone, air flow, altissimo, articulation, evenness of tone throughout the range, etc........It is hard enough to develop those on one mouthpiece over three years. If you are switching all the time then the tools you are using are always different. The articulation is slightly different, the response is different, the air support is different, the tone is different, the air support needed is different, etc....... All the constant changes fight against you in the learning process. It would be like learning to be an expert marksman and everyday that you go to the gun range they hand you a different gun with different calibrations. It will work against you. The process requires that you are one with your gun. You know how it feels, how it shoots, what it's tendencies are, etc......

Mouthpieces are the same! Over time you learn and are one with the mouthpiece. You know what to do to get high G, you know what notes are flat or sharp, you know the pressure required to tongue lightly or hard, you know what to do to get a low Bb at pp. You have worked with the tools enough to know and you are one with them.

This is just another thought. I give this speech to most 1-3 year students who start talking about switching mouthpieces.......some listen, some don't.......
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I would love to hear about all the ins and outs of mouthpiece design, as well as what reed works best with which mp? It is all new to me and I am quite frankly overwhelmed at available saxophone selections, not to mention the myriad choices for mouthpiece and reed...
Yes it would be fascinating. I do a little metal casting every now and then....sometimes I’m tempted to try casting one but that would probably turn into a huge project since I don’t have the right equipment to finish it
Me too!! Very much so!
I am a little under the weather right now, but will start a little thread when I am feeling better -
I am a little under the weather right now, but will start a little thread when I am feeling better -
Be well and take your time. Very much looking forward...
Gotta get the latest glass, right?
Analogous to physical tools are your mental tools.

But the professor in more than one Berklee Online jazz performance course stated,

"It's not how much you know, it's how you use what you do know."
.....or do whatever you want from the beginning. It's your decision as an adult. The problem with beginners switching within 3 years is that it is so hard to develop consistency with the tools you are using. You are trying to develop a consistent tone, air flow, altissimo, articulation, evenness of tone throughout the range, etc........It is hard enough to develop those on one mouthpiece over three years. If you are switching all the time then the tools you are using are always different. The articulation is slightly different, the response is different, the air support is different, the tone is different, the air support needed is different, etc....... All the constant changes fight against you in the learning process. It would be like learning to be an expert marksman and everyday that you go to the gun range they hand you a different gun with different calibrations. It will work against you. The process requires that you are one with your gun. You know how it feels, how it shoots, what it's tendencies are, etc......

Mouthpieces are the same! Over time you learn and are one with the mouthpiece. You know what to do to get high G, you know what notes are flat or sharp, you know the pressure required to tongue lightly or hard, you know what to do to get a low Bb at pp. You have worked with the tools enough to know and you are one with them.

This is just another thought. I give this speech to most 1-3 year students who start talking about switching mouthpieces.......some listen, some don't.......
" Berg: Many people have mentioned your influence on 'Trane. Did you know 'TVane?

Gordon: Not really. I knew him, but not well. He was from Philly. He was younger, of course, but I had met him here and there. Philly Joe reminded me recently, a few months ago when we were on tour together in Europe, of the time that Miles' band came out to Hollywood. 'Trane was playing his ****, but it wasn't projecting, he didn't have the sound. So one day we were talking and I said, "Man, you play fantas*tic, but you have to develop that sound, get that projection." I gave him a mouthpiece I had that I wasn't using. I laid that on him and that was it. That made the difference.

Berg: That's incredible because there are many things in 'Trane's sound that are reminiscent of your sound.

Gordon: He was playing my mouth*piece, man! ...".

https://jazzprofiles.blogspot.com/2018/03/dexter-gordon-chuck-berg-interview.html
As I clearly stated, my text might not apply to you, it requires a suspense of disbelief and is not cut and dry but I believe people with insight got my point. You have to be able to see beyond yourself to understand it. On the other hand, It looks like the people contradicting me all seem to have personal motives or agendas whether greed or otherwise such as not willing to admit they are stuck where they are musically or in other areas of their life. I find, especially these days that people just want to be right at any cost and get a high off of anger. Anger is a very powerful addiction.

As for hobbyists, I never did hobby or mediocre. I believe if you’re going to do something than go for it but that’s just me. I’ve always felt that the hobby mentality is a kind of apathy or depression or brain fog. Maybe I’m wrong in thinking like this, I don’t know but to be honest, it’s not easy being me but I wouldn’t want to be any other way either.

I believe some of us have a war going on in our heads that struggle with making the right choices in our daily lives and have a problem making good choices such as whether or not to practice or get a new teacher? Fast food or healthful food? An energy efficient car or a gas guzzler? I could go on. I personally have a war going on. I fight against anger, injustice, struggle with finances and numerous other things everyday but I’ve found that I can control my mind with practice and patience. With some effort you can REFOCUS these distractions to your music or whatever you want. I meditate and use an application called Muse to gain control over my mind and I attend protests against causes I believe in and write emails. Ask yourself, what am I doing to further my music really? What am I doing to further my happiness and the happiness of the people around me? That’s what will flow out of your instrument, not switching a piece of equipment. When was the last time you took your car out of drive and put it in neural? Probably decades.

I further assert my position on equipment and believe many people are victims of insecurity, industry hype, desire for that special sound and chasing something that will never materialize by switching gear. And it’s not just in music, its in all sports activities and hobbies, careers, the white picket fence syndrome, ad infinitum. It permeates every aspect of our minds and this obsession with things outside of ourselves is what dominates your music and actions.

I recently bought a Steinway grand to replace my upright Yamaha at a tremendous expense but I justified it with my turning sixty years old this year and I miss the Yamaha. It was bold and dynamic and complex but I’m not sweating it because I know I still have to learn to play the grand and I’m more interested in excelling my playing and I knew it wouldn’t improve my music.

Don’t be satisfied with where you are in this life or you will repeat it. Just simple advice from an old mouth maker. Peace everyone.

Phil
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As an educator of 22 years, I am reminded of the "mean girl" syndrome. You know the one who appears nice to all the teachers, but the stirs up the other girls so that they end up fighting one another? All the while said mean girl stands in the corner and watches it all unfold.
My main takeaways:

1) either I agree with Phil, or I am a greedy, insecure, self-serving and/or angry wretch;
2) either I quit my job and pursue music (or tennis, or basketball, etc.) full-time; otherwise I need to schedule sessions with a shrink because I'm clearly a depressed wretch;
3) some random babbling about some things; and
4) Phil has a new, very expensive Steinway.
My main takeaways:

1) Phil is bitter because others succeed in the mouthpiece and he is jealous.
2) Phil is selling chinese made saxophones and his thread about chinese stufff is to distract from that.
My main takeaways:

1) Nothing really - he has been on my "ignore" list for a long time. What's this thread about?
I find, especially these days that people just want to be right at any cost and get high off of anger. Anger is a very powerful addiction.
Phil
All of my life, I have been a servant to the people and musicians are the biggest AHoles that I've ever met. This forum is full of musicians that continuously force their point of view and need to be right.
“As for hobbyists, I never did hobby or mediocre. I believe if you’re going to do something than go for it but that’s just me. I’ve always felt that the hobby mentality is a kind of apathy or depression or brain fog. Maybe I’m wrong in thinking like this, I don’t know but to be honest, it’s not easy being me but I wouldn’t want to be any other way either.”

Ok Phil, saw your point of view in the first post and now you’ve gone off the rails! Not necessarily depression but brain fog is a possibility! Come on man, shake yourself! You’re doing damage to your reputation at this point that could have fallout for your horn business since I’m guessing a lot of your customers are those lame hobbyists. Sheesh...
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