[cpaace]

Although I am age 70 I am new to music, The clarinet and music theory. But, the passion is very strong so I read a lot as I have always found that I get as much if not more from reading as I do from actual instruction. Anyway, this past week I read in two separate places about the concept of developing an ear and how different tones affect the listner etc. In particular were conversations about notes played out of key which create tension in a piece that should be resolved by the next measure. Now while I sort of understood what the writers were saying I could not relate to it. Atleast I didn't think they were talking about anything that I would hear or detect. So I pretty much wrote it off to highly technical stuff not for little peions like me to be concerned about. I thought I had put it out of my mind, but, apparently not. This morning I awoke thinking about a piece I am currently trying to learn on my clarinet. I didn't awake and then start thinking, I believe my brain was already engaged on the subject when I awoke. And the first thought was the realization that I had been experiencing the very theory or concept that they were talking about. In that piece ( The Swan from "Carnival of the Animals) there is a measure that starts with a natural B that is held for three beats then a C sharp and the following measure begins with a natural D. All if which is in conformity with the key of A. About eight measures later a similar phase begins only this time with a B sharp or natural C. When I play it it is uncomfortable and "tense" would be an adequate way to describe it. It is held for three beats, as before, a C sharp and then the next measure begins this time with a D sharp. That D sharp resolves the tension as it is exactly 1 and 1/2 tones above the c natural just as the natural D was the same interval above the natural B.
All this may sound trivial to you, but, I thought it amazing how the brain continued to work out the mystery and then bring it to my attention when it had it solved. I mean that is exactly what happened.

Now if only I could understand why it is so difficult for me to memorize songs. There are some songs I have played over a hundred times in practice and I stilll need the sheet music to play them. I am hopeful that I will develop an ear that will lead me to the notes.

 

[rzzzzz]

i'm not sure if this has any interest, but one of the great neuroscience teasers is what exactly is the brain up to during sleep, especially REM sleep. it seems that those parts of neural architecture that seem especially tasked with connecting and processing disparate forms of information (sensory, emotional, technical) are most active during the time we tend to dream. so there has been any number of recent studies involving problem solving, creativity, comprehension, etc. after the brain has "slept on it". and both mcartney and lennon claimed to have written at least one song a piece from what they woke up with. (yesterday and nowhere man respectively.)

 

[Woosax]

There is a lot going on in sleep that we don't understand yet. Our lack of knowledge in this area comes from the fact that until the 1950s everyone thought that nothing important happened cognitively when we are asleep. Work out of Kleitman's lab showed that that line of thinking was just wrong.

 

[saxmaam]

Now if only I could understand why it is so difficult for me to memorize songs. There are some songs I have played over a hundred times in practice and I stilll need the sheet music to play them.

In my experience, just playing from sheet music won't lead to memorization. The brain will always expect the written notes to be there and will make efficient use of its resources by NOT memorizing everything.

I'm not much of a memorizer, so I won't try to address THAT question.

 

[TonyM]

Granpa Cpaace, I'm just a little peion like you and my socialising days are over. Like you I have things to do in the day and when I can pick up my clarinet I'm a very happy honker. All joking aside, I wonder if my memory is up to the task of building a repertoire. I have no answer but I do have a question that I ask myself: is it merely a matter of overiding the concern with others and playing all the time. You know that after fifty years old they don't take you seriously so why not capitalise on that and just play whenever and wherever you like. This sounds frivolous but my intent it serious.

 

[cpaace]

In my experience, just playing from sheet music won't lead to memorization. The brain will always expect the written notes to be there and will make efficient use of its resources by NOT memorizing everything.

I'm not much of a memorizer, so I won't try to address THAT question.

I think you are right. What I am trying to do is look at the first note ( if I have to) then play as far into the piece as I can without looking at the sheet music. Something I learned in the little bit of acting I do in my community. I found that if I continued to read from the script on stage I never seemed to commit it to memory. What works for me is looking at the scene before gong up and then leaving the script behind. At first it results in the director having to prompt, but, quickly that need falls by the wayside. Others never seem to learn their parts until the director takes away their scripts on stage. So I am applying the same technique to music. I will let you know how it works.

 

[Honeyboy]

I once took an educational class where we did an experiment. The instructor read a difficult riddle to us and assured us that, with a bit of time, the brain would come up with the answer without us having to stew over it. Sure enough, during the break about 2 hours later as I was sitting on the throne, the answer just popped into my head.

 

[JL]

What I am trying to do is look at the first note ( if I have to) then play as far into the piece as I can without looking at the sheet music..

That's a good approach and I think it will work for you. If you have a recording of the tune to play along with (WITHOUT the sheet music), that can help too.

saxmaam beat me to it, but I want to reiterate the need to learn tunes by ear. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but I for sure cannot learn (memorize) anything by reading the music, no matter how many times I read it. It's not until I get away from the sheet music that I can really learn any tune. The tunes I learn most efficiently are ones I learn by ear from a recording. Sometimes I'll look at the sheet music if I have to. But the sooner I get away from the notes on paper, the sooner I really learn the tune.

There is obviously some sort of mind thing going on here. Maybe the act of using a visual reference (the written page of music) vs an aural or mental process, gets in the way of ingraining the song in your mind. Who knows? But the surest way to learn tunes, licks, scales, chords, and music in general is to do it without the sheet music in front of you.

 

[Bubba06]

While I was at one of the Jamey Aebersold camps for the first time, I had no understanding of chord theory, yet around 5 hours later when I was eating my lunch I had an Epiphany and wholly understood it all. A bit of a Eurika!

-Bubba-

 

[Woosax]

...But the surest way to learn tunes, licks, scales, chords, and music in general is to do it without the sheet music in front of you.

For some perhaps. There are a lot of individual differences in this though. Many people learn tunes, licks, scales, chords, and music in general without ever learning to read music. Some of them are quite profound in their abilities.

 

[patmiller]

I agree that the brain is a funny old organ. I'm not a good reader (of music). Whenever I'm reading something, all my other musical skills desert me. I'm talking about the ability to remember tunes, the ability to follow the harmonic structure, the ability to be able to play alternative melodies that fit that structure, and so on.

In parallel with this I have a very good memory for people's names, so long as I find the name out indirectly. If I'm properly introduced and shake hands I invarialbly forget the name. Somehow the act of shaking hands drives the name form my mind, I think because I'm concentrating on that fleeting physical touch. Yet if I say to a friend "what's that guy's name over there?" and he tells me, then I NEVER forget that name. Same brain, same task, yet one works and the other doesn't.

To me it seems that when you try to memorise a piece, you may actually be trying to memorise READING it instead of PLAYING it. I don't know if knowing this will actually help though!

 

[TonyM]

I think I agree with patmiller here. I realised that I learnt the tune that I'm starting this week in concert key (Am) and for the first time didn't go back to writing it out a Bb transcription (Bm). Instead I just started playing from F# rather than E and in two run throughs I had it (It's only 16 bars). And it didn't feel like the usual me struggling to remember what came next. I just surprised myself. I think there is something about having the instrument in your hands to work things out on that makes it take so much quicker. I'm a late beginner so sorry for posting someting that most of you know.

 

[JL]

For some perhaps. There are a lot of individual differences in this though. Many people learn tunes, licks, scales, chords, and music in general without ever learning to read music. Some of them are quite profound in their abilities.

Woosax, that's exactly what I'm saying. Go back and read what I said. I'll state it again:

" ...the surest way to learn tunes, licks, scales, chords, and music in general is to do it without the sheet music in front of you."

Obviously those who haven't learned to read music won't have the sheet music in front of them!

p.s. I will admit this might not apply to everyone.

 

[Woosax]

Sorry, I misread your post. I read "without" as "with".

 

[MartinMusicMan]

As usual, JL said it before I could. But I'll be more blunt: you can't memorize tunes with the sheet music in front of you. Sure, you can look at it to see a part that you can't figure out by ear. But then you have to play that part without looking at the music. You have to play by ear to memorize tunes. You have to get the intervals under your fingers and stored in your hearing and muscle memory, not in your "sheet music" memory. You have to hear the tune you're playing, just like you sing, and you have to train your fingers to play the notes you hear. Once you can do that, the rest is easy.

 

[cpaace]

As usual, JL said it before I could. But I'll be more blunt: you can't memorize tunes with the sheet music in front of you. Sure, you can look at it to see a part that you can't figure out by ear. But then you have to play that part without looking at the music. You have to play by ear to memorize tunes. You have to get the intervals under your fingers and stored in your hearing and muscle memory, not in your "sheet music" memory. You have to hear the tune you're playing, just like you sing, and you have to train your fingers to play the notes you hear. Once you can do that, the rest is easy.

My problem is I have to develop the ability to hear it as discussed here. I am probably not focused enough on the audible when I play it with the sheet music. Yes, if I play the wrong note I know that right away, but, I do not know where to go for the right one. Interesting idea here is to play with a recording and see if that sends me to the right note.

 

[David f]

I use the music as reference after the 2nd to third time unless it is some rediculous tongue twister, it's just more natural to not be staring at the page, once you have the rythmic understanding, is there really a whole lot of point to straining your eyes (maybe if there are a lot of rests.)

 

[cpaace]

I use the music as reference after the 2nd to third time unless it is some rediculous tongue twister, it's just more natural to not be staring at the page, once you have the rythmic understanding, is there really a whole lot of point to straining your eyes (maybe if there are a lot of rests.)

that is my whole point above. Either your ear is very well trained or you have a photographic memory. I am in my local community theatre and am known for how well and quicly I memorize my lines. My method has been to read over the scene and then wing it without the script. I plan on applying the same technique to the music, only measure by measure. I know that as long as the sheet music is in front of me I will never learn it and I do not have the ear, yet, to wing it. Hopefully it will all come...in time....even at my age.

 

[JL]

cpaace, like I said, I think you're on the right track. Keep it going! One thing to keep in mind. Playing 'by ear' isn't just a matter of picking the right notes out of thin air. Some very gifted people can do that from the start, but most of us needed to learn how to play in a given key and train our ears to hear relative pitch (intervals), etc. Can you play the 12 major scales by ear? That's a good place to start, because everything is derived from there. You need a frame of reference. So, for one example, if you know what a major 3rd sounds like, then you can hear the difference when a minor 3rd is played. Once you know the key a tune is in, and whether it's major or minor, that will reduce the note choices somewhat. Everything will relate to the tonic.

So be sure to take time to learn scales, chord arpeggios, etc. That will help your ear and your ability to understand what you're hearing when listening to a melody. Also, knowing the song form (AABA, ABA, blues, whatever) and chord progression helps a LOT. The song form/chord progression is like a 'road map' of the tune that will help you with note choices, etc.

 

[TonyM]

I plan on applying the same technique to the music, only measure by measure. I know that as long as the sheet music is in front of me I will never learn it and I do not have the ear, yet, to wing it. Hopefully it will all come...in time....even at my age.

I don't think that your age will be a problem here but I would suggest that measure by measure might not be the way to go. Take seriously JL's comments about learning song form and learn a song in two ways. First there's the melody which you can play back in your head when you know it. Reading music helps here because it can help you get the the pitches and it can help you get the rhythmic relationships right. But put the music away when you know the melody. Then practice the song harmonically by working through the guidetones. And for that it is useful to think in two and four bar phrases. So a song like 'Summertime' might be a 16 bar tune but you can break it down into four four-bar phrases and those four-bar phrases are easy enough to remember as units on their own. More importantly it is easier to grasp the harmonic relationship of the phrases if you think in two or four bar sequences.

So if you factor guidetone practice into your daily routine, just working through standard song forms as JL suggests or just standards themselves, you are doing a lot of preparation for practicing and remembering other melodies that you might come across because you are teaching yourself to hear and recognise the musical relationships that are the building blocks. Going measure by measure might not help that so much. It was probably fine with reading scripts because you are so attuned to linguistic communication that you could do it. Remember that ever conversation that we have, every time someone repeats a cliche or a familiar expression, that's like practicing the guidetones of language. In music you can practice the same way but you have to consciously prepare your mind and ears for the task. That's what all those teenage boys are doing when they play guitar songs to each other all day but they are probably not too aware of the fact. You've told us that you are no longer a teenager, neither am I, but you can consciously prepare your memory with guidetones.