Is any one familiar with a vintage Buescher tru- lay 55/812 m ? Said to have huge chamber , one is for sale and I was thinking of trying it out . Currently using a new Meyer 5 medium on a 1920 Buescher alto sax . Was wondering if there is much of a difference between them playing on that horn . Thanks
alto tru- lay mouth piece
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A modern Meyer 5 and a Tru-Lay are going to play very differently for you. For one thing, the chamber on the Tru-Lay really is going to be much larger than on the Meyer. Plus, assuming it hasn’t been worked on, the Tru-Lay has a narrower tip opening. And it won’t have much in the way of a baffle, either. They’re really two different beasts.
That said, the Tru-Lay ought to work well on a ‘20 Buescher alto, but for a different tonal concept than what you can expect from a Meyer.
That said, the Tru-Lay ought to work well on a ‘20 Buescher alto, but for a different tonal concept than what you can expect from a Meyer.
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I have one sitting here on my desk that is a 65/812 M. It plays nothing like a Meyer. Very stuffy and fat sounding, no edge. Probably a good classical model. These tend to be a bit expensive. The one you mention is probably a .055" and would be more like a Meyer 2 if there is such a thing. Mine would be in the Selmer C* region.
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All well and good if the sound profile you're looking for is that coming from a Victrola. Meyer-like mouthpieces play wonderfully on vintage Buescher altos. My go to alto is a True Tone.
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I've played a variety of Meyer-like mouthpieces on my True Tone. Beginning with an actual vintage Meyer NYUSA, then looking for something more open. That led to a SR Tech Legend 85 and ultimately what I've been using for the last fifteen years or more, an RPC 90 rollover. I still have the original Buescher mouthpiece, but would never use it for what I do... or anything else, mind you. You can hear my horn with the RPC here:
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RPC mouthpieces were custom made, and their maker recently died. So pricing for them is spiking and I doubt they'll come down anytime soon. You don't need one of those however. They work for me because more open tipped mouthpieces are my fit, but there are plenty of more affordable Meyer-like mouthpieces out there. Vandoren makes them, and they're decent quality right off the shelf. You already have a Meyer though, so no real need to look for another.
I do get why you'd want to experiment, and this site feeds right into that. But I figure that once you try a vintage Buescher mouthpiece, you'll more appreciate what you already have.
I do get why you'd want to experiment, and this site feeds right into that. But I figure that once you try a vintage Buescher mouthpiece, you'll more appreciate what you already have.
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To make it work for you, you'll probably need to use a harder reed than you're used to on the Meyer. I find in particular that a reed with a firm tip helps make small-tip opening, large chamber 'pieces work better. Probably not a tone concept you'll want to settle on, but they can bring out (good) aspects of your horn you're not used to hearing.
I agree with Grumps, though, about Meyers on TT horns. A Meyer 5 is what I used on the first TT I had, which was a '27 or so horn, and it worked great.
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I totally agree. They are limiting as a full time mouthpiece, but they're a great thing to have around for that reason. There is a fundamental character to a Buescher sax, not just in tone but tuning and response. Pieces like Buescher, Martin, Rascher or Caravan help you find it. That knowledge can help you evaluate other setups.
A period sound is a neat thing to explore too, if you've ever heard 20s and 30s jazz/pop. However, the pure classical sound - which was just starting to be explored back then - really is best developed by not doubling on other mouthpieces, or other genres. Plus, of course, doing religious overtone work. The payoff is a sound that is almost non-saxophonic...woody and somber...an esthetic really all its own.
As for Meyers, I always got better results with Morgans. I found Meyers hard to voice up top - they could be piercing. But Meyer seems to be the go-to for Buescher and for alto, much as Link is for Conn and for tenor.
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This is why I like keeping these mouthpieces around. An alternative reference point. The first time I got one to work for me (which really came down to the reed I was using) it was like having a different horn. At the time the impression was that instead of projecting tone forward, the horn was at the center of a tone-bubble & I was trying to increase the diameter of that bubble. Kind of hard to describe. Yes, the response was different, too. For one thing the TT's palm notes were noticeably more stable.
What's interesting is how well my 400 tenor works with a Tru-Lay, given that it's the most contemporary Buescher. I mostly play a STM or a Vandoren T75 on it, but I've got a Tru-Lay and the horn loves it. Just sort of glides around effortlessly. Get the same effect with an old WWCo B5*. Large chambers work well on that horn.
Anyway, I don't want to oversell it because it's not a tonal pursuit I've invested a lot of time to, but I agree with Paulwl that the old-school mpcs are worth having around.
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That’s the piece I use for any classical rep. Like people said it’s VERY different from a Meyer. You could probably get away with a Vandoren traditional 3.5 or 4, and it’s sound is very much in the style of Sigurd Rascher (go figure, it’s the mouthpiece he used).
The facing is also quite short, but with such a large chamber, it works well for fast articulations and responds very well from low Bb all the way in to the early altissimo(I begin to struggle a bit above altissimo C)
If you are looking for a dark sound, much darker then any Selmer or Vandoren or the like, that piece will work wonders for that
The facing is also quite short, but with such a large chamber, it works well for fast articulations and responds very well from low Bb all the way in to the early altissimo(I begin to struggle a bit above altissimo C)
If you are looking for a dark sound, much darker then any Selmer or Vandoren or the like, that piece will work wonders for that
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That is interesting about the short facing / large chamber combo. I've played tenor Tru-Lays but never an alto until I found one recently in the case with an old King horn I picked up. It's the same 55 / 812 tip & lay. The chamber looks very similar to older Buescher mpcs I've had, but this one is much more responsive on a lighter reed than I would have expected & you are right about the articulation. I wonder if the older Buescher mpcs had a longer lay.
I've got a '30s King "A" alto mouthpiece with a similar large chamber which I figured was a dog (like the same-era tenor 'pieces), but it has a pronounced tooth groove, so somebody thought it was alright. I tried it & it played well; the Tru-Lay reminds me of it. I wonder if it's got a relatively short facing.
But it doesn't sound like a Victrola at all, or a sock, or even a cow!! It's on the dark spectrum, but it gets a clear tone and isn't tubby at all. Quieter, yes. To be sure I've played a few in the older '20s style that were pretty foggy.
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