[ConnorTsax]

Hello all!

For 95% of my saxophone career, I have played tenor sax for all of my jazz performances. However, I have been playing a lot more alto lately because I need to audition for college on alto. I've still been sticking with tenor for jazz, but I would like to change that a little bit to make myself a more well-rounded player. I've been using my AL3 Optimum mouthpiece for double-duty on classical and jazz, because the Meyer 6M that I have seems to be too punchy in my hands. I am a huge fan of Paul Desmond's alto sound, and am looking for a piece that provides the darkness of Desmond (or the AL3), while being flexible enough in the extreme dynamic ranges of jazz (which the AL3 doesn't do so well). Thank you all so much for any help you can offer!

 

[leycroft]

Why not try the AL5 but ive not heard Paul Desmond playing at " extreme dynamic ranges" .

 

[milandro]

with a vague title like that you are going to get vague answers, while you are THEN inside asking some very specific things.

you would have been better served by continuing other threads which already go in that direction. There are many dozens.

The archives and their active use are one of the most important treasures of this forum

https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showt...e-for-Paul-Desmond-early-Art-Pepper-type-tone
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?150987-Paul-Desmond-Tone
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?117740-Paul-Desmond-Sound
https://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?14546-the-desmond-sound

 

[mijderf]

Some more definition of the sound and mouthpiece characteristics you are looking for would help. Do you like mouthpieces to be resistant, or free blowing? Do you want a spread sound or focused sound? Are you looking for metal or HR or resin? It also might help to know what horn you will use it on.

BTW, I have played a couple of mouthpieces that reference a "Desmond sound". They both played nicely, but had enough resistance that extreme dynamics was not going to happen.

 

[LostConn]

Classical alto mouthpieces that would be better for jazz than the Vandoren Optimum AL3:

• Optimum AL5, as recommended above
• Selmer Concept
• Selmer S80 (C* or C**)

I am not suggesting, however, that any of these mouthpieces would help you sound like Paul Desmond. Maybe try a Phil-Tone Solstice for that (it might be acceptable for classical, though not ideal).

I've used all the mouthpieces mentioned above, fwiw.

 

[10mfan]

Man, for the Desmond thing—- I used to use a Yamaha 4C with a heavier reed and it worked very well for me.
Inexpensive, and was a lot of fun for that stuff. Not really good for much else, but it worked well for that for me.

Desmond used an MC Gregory alto.

 

[Reet McVouty]

Forget about brands, Desmond's sound was unique because his concept " The Dry Martini" sound was, his concept. It's what he heard and strove to sound like. Anyway, no one brand is the answer. I would suggest a mouthpiece with a large chamber, flat or rollover baffle with a medium (.75-80) tip opening, with a 2.5 to 3 reed strength. Then, YOU have to work the sound out in your head.

 

[1saxman]

To sound like Desmond you have to 'channel' him and play like he played. Its the same with any other player. You listen to it until it becomes your 'head sound/style', then when you play that kind of music, it starts to come out of your horn. The generic type of mouthpiece can help a lot. Didn't he play a Freddy Gregory?

 

[JoAnnPeeler]

Didn't he play a really, really hard reed as well? A reed so hard you can buy them at Home Depot? I've heard that to mimic him you also need a mouthpiece with very little or no baffle. That sounds sort of like a classical mouthpiece to me.

 

[hakukani]

To sound like Desmond you have to 'channel' him and play like he played. Its the same with any other player. You listen to it until it becomes your 'head sound/style', then when you play that kind of music, it starts to come out of your horn. The generic type of mouthpiece can help a lot. Didn't he play a Freddy Gregory?

Close. He played an MC Gregory 4a 18. According to Theo Wanne's chart, it's a .067--equal to a selmer C*.

 

[Saxophone Strange]

So... I can’t get behind that a mouthpiece will give you a sound. More that it may not get in the way of the sound you have.

If you are playing Tenor a lot, how’s your embouchure? Do you prefer Hr or metal currently? Aside from Desmond, who else are your influences? What is your price range? What horn do you play? How’s your breath support?

Incidentally I have found that if I want to be a better tenor player, playing more alto helps and if I want to be a better alto player playing more tenor helps. They seem to shore up each other’s weaknesses.

That being said, I play a Selmer Balanced action alto with a pair of lambersons (F^7, 6SB) and an old ponzol. I also played on a hollowed out dukoff D10 (closer to .98) on alto so... A lot depends on what you find that you like to play on...

 

[Reet McVouty]

So... I can't get behind that a mouthpiece will give you a sound.

If you're saying that a certain brand mouthpiece won't give you a sound, I am in agreement with that. But mouthpiece characteristics matter a great deal. Anyone playing a small chamber mouthpiece with a step baffle and a large tip opening will be hard pressed (almost impossible) to get a dark sound. It's the construction of the mouthpiece that helps facilitate sound, not the brand. But like others have said here, you have to hear the sound you want and go after it. If the OP likes Desmond, he needs to put on his music and play along with it, trying to achieve his sound. But, if he has a mouthpiece with all the wrong characteristics he will have a lot of difficulty getting there.

 

[Saxaholic]

When you say audition, I assume that means you are trying to become a music major. Keep in mind that most programs, even the jazz ones, will require you to play classical alto repertoire. This means you need to have a solid alto and will play it regularly throughout college.

I used a Selmer C* for both classical and Desmond playing when I was in college. As others have mentioned, the mouthpiece is not super important in acquiring Desmonds sound. Anything with a small tip, not a lot of baffle, and a hard reed will get you in the ballpark. The old MC Gregories are wonderful mouthpieces and I agree they do the "Desmond thing" better than anything else. But if you are doing a jazz program at school, chances are you'll need to play in a big band, pep band, marching band, and other situations...so youll need to be a little more versatile than Desmonds concept usually allows. Now it's possible you might be able to play tenor in those situations, but they could very well ask you to play alto as well, depends on the situation.

Your current mouthpiece wont have any trouble playing jazz like Desmond. If you need to "flavor" it more, try different reeds. You also have a Meyer 6M which will be perfectly fine for most styles at college.

To me, it just sounds like you need to practice. Maybe experiment with reeds if you want to brighten up the sound some more. Rigotti is my favorite bright type of reed.

Always check the college audition requirements out and follow them. If they're not listed, call someone to try and find out. As a general rule of thumb, you can do the following: make sure you know all your major, minor, mixolydian, and dorian scales. Most colleges worth their salt expect you to know those walking in the door. Prepare two Ferling etudes of opposite styles/tempo, and a standard classical piece (i.e. Creston Sonata).

Best of luck getting into your college of choice!!! Wishing you well!

- Saxaholic

 

[Lionelsax]

I've got a Selmer S80, I don't use it a lot but when I do I figure out it's neutral, good and can do everything.
If I were you I would try the S80, it just sounds the way you are.

 

[Airflyte]

I just tried something I wouldn't normally do. I put a 1920's piece on my YAS-52. I may not have much credibility here but stay me with on this.
So, firstly I did the normal tune to Ab with the neck only. First impression - this one was not going to do any "paint peeling". Assembled the horn and played some scales. Did NOT go well - I pressed on with my Rubank book.

Now here's where things got interesting. It's almost like subconscious micro-adjustments were being made to get this thing to speak. After getting used to the shockingly small opening, I felt a lot more air could be pushed through than I previously thought. More corner pressure with a softer lip was the key here. Volume increased and the sound opened up. Oddly enough, open C# took less effort to get up to pitch.

What does this have to do with the OP's initial post? I'm not sure but I just wanted to share. I guess my point is that one's embouchure/air are very important factors in different mouth piece designs.

In conclusion, I still sounded like me and the horn still had it's core Yamaha thing going on. Surely going to revisit this one when my old alto is up and running again. Oh yeah, and this old mp was very fussy about reed placement!

Thanks for reading